Npower bill - had an increase?

DirectDebacle

....because I think we are basically on the same side of the consumer fence.

Not on the issue of suppliers attempts to have all DD accounts at zero by spring.

SLC 27 prohibits this type of action. It requires that suppliers set DD payments at an appropriate level in accordance with the Domestic Supply Contract and that as far as possible that this is maintained throughout the life of the contract. The reasoning behind this is to avoid excessive credit or debit balances occurring.

As an example a customer entering into a DSC which is for 12 months in October and requires monthly DD payments would not expect the DD payments to be set at a level to achieve a zero balance by the end of March.

This would be in breach of SLC 27.

SLC 27 requires suppliers to monitor DD payments and ensure the payments are based upon the best and most current information available or which reasonably ought to be available.

Personally I am happy with "spring alignment" and unhappy with "6 month interim review".

You may well be happy to accept that all DD accounts are at zero in the spring and condone abuse of the DD process and Ofgem regulations in order for that to be achieved.

I do not share that view.

What aspect of reviews are you unhappy with? Suppliers are required to do them under SLC 27.

jalexa

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Not on the issue of suppliers attempts to have all DD accounts at zero by spring.

SLC 27 prohibits this type of action.

That is not *my* reading of SLC27 (but neither is it my argument). Which paragraph and/or phrase do *you* think empowers "prohibits"?

Yet again you distort my argument by selective quotation. No matter, I like "challenge", but good luck with Ofgem.

You ask "what aspects of reviews am I unhappy with" when what I said was "personally I am happy with "spring alignment" and unhappy with "6 month interim review"" (I think there is an answer there) -because - "I cannot see anything in Condition 27 to support NPower's "unfortunately the Energy Regulator have advised that we must reassess all direct debit account's on a 6 monthly basis rather than 12 monthly..."

Incidently, NPower state in their procedure they do not undertake reviews in the first 6 months. The SLC27 objective is not reviews, per se, but "fixed direct debit", varied in accordance with SLC27 "based on the best and most current information available". Unfortunately, that in "contract speake" is almost "open house" for any frequency, (because frequency is not stated), but I would say was satisfied by any frequency of actual or customer meter reading. Except where the published procedure states an "annual review" and a (i.e. one) "interim review".

I stated I am happy with "spring aligment". That does not make me unhappy with "anniversary" alignment. I ask my supplier when my "annual review" will be and hold them to it, including by the provision of their calculations if I do not agree.

That is open to all customers.

backfoot

*Never* have so many 'emphases' (if indeed a correct word) and 'bracketed' sub-texts, caused me (and possibly others),so much confusion (personal i.e.), that I felt "compelled",but in a lighthearted and hopefully respectful way to say, that I on *this* occasion, but not USUALLY have to disagree.

I think DD is right about DD's.:D

jalexa

backfoot wrote: »

You didn't take up my offer in an earlier post "if there is something you don't understand feel free to post a shorter quote and I will be happy to help", so I think your post is a little diminished by that, and by seeing underlines which I did not use:).

I would be happy to debate and even concede a good argument, sadly none of my specific SLC27 interpretative challenges put to DD have been responded to, especially "SLC27 prohibits..."

Trust that is clear text enough for you.

Given your Edf discussions, can you throw any light on the reason why Edf "spring align"?

swimmer_2

I fail to see what the benefits privatisation of our utilities have been for the public. They should renationalise the lot, so people don't have to faff about to avouid being ripped off. The nationalised power company would not be making profits so bills would come down, and any profit made could be aimed at investing in free energy schemes such as free solar heating on low income houses.

backfoot

jalexa wrote: »

Given your Edf discussions, can you throw any light on the reason why Edf "spring align"?

They spring align? Where does it say that?

In practice, they don't even set up the amounts correctly or at all.

In my time with them,no reviews.They set up a DD for gas which was £30 too low. No review, they didn't notice anything was wrong.:eek:

For my relative's acount,they are not taking the gas DD. (two months).

To have spring aligned my account,they would have had to charge an extraordinarily high value, given that I started early December 2010. They didn't and it couldn't possibly have made sense to do so.

I'll leave Direct Debacle to continue the other License stuff with you. I know who my money's on.;)

Nothing wrong with a good underline.Try a few

meggsy

DirectDebacle wrote: »

My earlier posts that annual reviews of DD should be conducted on the anniversary date, ie 12 months after the start, is correct and npower are not adhering to this in some cases.

npower are masters of deception and their defininition of an annual review is I suspect a modified re-incarnation of their discredited 'tariff year'.

You could be right DD, annual review in npowerland should read bi-annual review ! With an anniversary date of March, this was on our June 2010 bill ..

"We check your payment amount every six months as we aim to ensure you'll have paid just the right amount by your annual review. We've now adjusted your payment to £175.00, taking your current balance into account in the calculation. We'll take this from your bank account with effect from 01/09/10 or just after" (up from £120)

December 2010 bill ...

"We check your payment amount every six months as we aim to ensure you'll have paid just the right amount by your annual review. We've now adjusted your payment to £163.00, taking your current balance into account in the calculation. We'll take this from your bank account with effect from 04/01/11 or just after".

On both occasions I had the DD put back to £128.

June 2011 bill and bi-annual review increased the DD to £156 - I didn't argue, they took one August payment before I switched away. Final bill was £70.

When they informed customers of bi-annual billing I expected them
in September and March to align with March anniversary date, not June and December.

DirectDebacle

jalexa wrote: »

That is not *my* reading of SLC27 (but neither is it my argument). Which paragraph and/or phrase do *you* think empowers "prohibits"?

Yet again you distort my argument by selective quotation. No matter, I like "challenge", but good luck with Ofgem.

You ask "what aspects of reviews am I unhappy with" when what I said was "personally I am happy with "spring alignment" and unhappy with "6 month interim review"" (I think there is an answer there) -because - "I cannot see anything in Condition 27 to support NPower's "unfortunately the Energy Regulator have advised that we must reassess all direct debit account's on a 6 monthly basis rather than 12 monthly..."

Incidently, NPower state in their procedure they do not undertake reviews in the first 6 months. The SLC27 objective is not reviews, per se, but "fixed direct debit", varied in accordance with SLC27 "based on the best and most current information available". Unfortunately, that in "contract speake" is almost "open house" for any frequency, (because frequency is not stated), but I would say was satisfied by any frequency of actual or customer meter reading. Except where the published procedure states an "annual review" and a (i.e. one) "interim review".

I stated I am happy with "spring aligment". That does not make me unhappy with "anniversary" alignment. I ask my supplier when my "annual review" will be and hold them to it, including by the provision of their calculations if I do not agree.

That is open to all customers.

Your really do need to read the consultation document Ofgem prepared prior to drafting SLC 27. You will then understand why Ofgem introduced this as a SLC (as opposed to making it voluntary guidance to suppliers)

You will understand why the conditions are deliberately phrased in the way they are, so as not to be too restrictive on suppliers.

You will also understand the intention of the SLC and the responsibility Ofgem have trusted the suppliers to show in managing DD payments.

In case you are in any doubt the SLC applies to all suppliers, not just npower so it isn't surprising that you cant find this phrase in SLC 27.

"unfortunately the Energy Regulator have advised that we must reassess all direct debit account's on a 6 monthly basis rather than 12 monthly..."

That is merely npowers interpretation of the responsibility SLC 27 has placed upon them.

Best you take some time out, get up to speed on the meaning and intention of SLC 27 and apply some commonsense when you re-read and interpret SLC 27.

When you have done that, if you still think suppliers are entitled to require a zero spring balance on a DSC when the terms of the contract dictate a zero balance at a different time of year, then come back for more advice.

meggsy

Having now switched from npower I checked all bills from them since March 2007 and over the past four years there have been 8 'annual reviews' with the majority of them in June and December, only one in March (08) and only one calculated over 12 months, others being x5 x6 x10 x11 !

One review stands out though, in September 08 Gas was calculated over 18 months, two winters of high rate units, estimated 6,838 at 7.800p. New DD of £97 up from £70, dual fuel total £151. This was reviewed again in June 09 x5 and reduced to £113 !

This reminded me of a report in The Times in 09, does anyone know if any more came of this ?

Npower accused of ripping off electricity customers

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/consumer_affairs/article6487652.ece

Bronnie

Well, I intend to leave npower and as I said previously, paying the increased direct debit in November, even at their vastly inflated rate, isn't really a big deal for me as I have a debit balance, so that would go towards clearing it before I left them .

I wasn't going to get sucked into arguing with them because I really don't want to expend my time and energy....would rather vote with my feet. However, I can't help but be aggrieved by their jiggery pokery, so a succinct email has gone off to npower tonight re this matter. Will advise of their response!

BTW, I've found the contributors to this thread really knowledgable and informative, although the content a little difficult to assimilate at times for the interested-once-a-year-energy-amateur (although will be keeping an eye on the ball more closely in future) Thanks.