Npower bill - had an increase?

meggsy

Direct debits should be calculated x12 not 10, 11 or 6 months as mine were. Anniversary date was 13th March which was the date npower started gas supply. npower always referred to 13th March when I frequently emailed to ask why they hadn't included the discount on the bill !
Direct Debit reviews were every six months on June and December bills.

foxgloves

Well, I never thought my original post would open such a can of worms and it's been very interesting reading all the replies. I have never thought my monthly payments should stay exactly the same. Obviously prices have risen and if there are any arrears showing on the account even just the £36 in our case, then it's clear that the direct debit amount needs to arise. My argument was always the size of the rise. Which ever way you look at the calculations, a rise of £70 every month to cover what was essentially a shortfall that worked out at £3 a month is IMO unjustifiable. I am happy with my decision to change to Co-op energy. The new monthly payment is much closer to what I had worked out that it should be based on current useage levels. I am considering using my Npower calculations to complain to the regulator about the way in which direct debit agreements are being used to bolster company cashflow. I have read all the views on here about how bills are calculated/time of year/etc, but using the figures Npower themselves sent me, there is in my mind, no way that the new direct debit amount they requested comes close to reflecting the amount of energy even they themselves say we are likely to use over the next 12 months. When I complained that the 2 sets of figures didn't match, they knocked £41 off the new amount instantly without hesitation, which I took as proof that they probably know that they don't actually have any arguments to counter the fact that what they are doing is chancing their arm & deliberately asking people to pay more than they actually need to pay under the terms of their direct debit agreement. New supplier looked at our useage & has set dd at £82.50. This is an increase on the £66 we were paying previously, but a long way off the £136 a month mickey-taking amount Npower thought we would be happy to pay!

DirectDebacle

jalexa wrote: »

You say "should" but I say "ask what it is". You are fighting (and losing) the issue on the "should", I fight it on the "what it is". You are fighting an "unwinnable" fight, hence "debacle" I guess, my approach demands supplier (in this case NPower) compliance to the letter of their published procedure on pain of Complaint and the potential of Energy Ombudsman referral.

What is the problem with the defined "annual review" being aligned on April (say) as long the first (less than a year) achieves an account balance by the first April (say) and then the (next and only) "interim review" sets payments to achieve a zero balance by the defined "annual review" date?

An "annual review" based on a summer "zero balance" is a completely illogical and unwinnable argument.

If I had received statements such as Bronnie then I would have argued that my anniversary date was Oct/Nov and that should be the date for the annual review. Having watched npowers videos it appears that the annual review should be 12 months after the account was opened.

I would have insisted that the DD payments be recalculated using the correct anniversary date and over the full 12monthly DD payments.

I would not have accepted their revised annual review date in the spring and a zero balance, causing bloated and un - budgeted for DD payments. .

What would you have argued?

DirectDebacle

foxgloves wrote: »

Well, I never thought my original post would open such a can of worms and it's been very interesting reading all the replies..

...I am happy with my decision to change to Co-op energy. The new monthly payment is much closer to what I had worked out that it should be based on current useage levels. I am considering using my Npower calculations to complain to the regulator about the way in which direct debit agreements are being used to bolster company cashflow.

You are leaving npower at just the right time as it is in November that the punitive Tier 1 units kick in for the winter. Same goes for Bronnie.

Ofgem do not take complaints from the public. Pass your experience on to Consumer Focus/Direct. They should take it up with npower for you and if they receive enough similar complaints may well pass them on to Ofgem for further investigation.

I am sure you will have better experiences with your new suppliers as they don't come any worse than npower.

backfoot

jalexa wrote: »

An "annual review" based on a summer "zero balance" is a completely illogical and unwinnable argument.

Very definitive.Why and according to what or whom?

It seems neither illogical or unwinnable to me.

jalexa

DirectDebacle wrote: »

You are leaving npower at just the right time as it is in November that the punitive Tier 1 units kick in for the winter.

The punative (and discredited) NPower seasonal weighting hasn't featured since Npower were exposed on the issue. Currently NPower tariffs (all I think) feature standing charges instead. And "deferred discount":eek:.

I worry about advice to "leave Npower now". There is the potential to forfeit £100 or so of "deferred discount":eek: unless leaving is aligned with the discount being earned.

jalexa

backfoot wrote: »

Very definitive.Why and according to what or whom?

It seems neither illogical or unwinnable to me.

The NPower online information about Direct Debit uses the term "annual review". Some posters see that as "anniversary review" but that is not the wording used. I am trying to encourage consumers to ask NPower what date (or month) is *their* "annual review". I am also trying to encourage customers to have an awareness of what is *their* "typical" annual consumption.

Both pieces of information are *required* to be able to *correctly* calculate a revised DD. I made a particular statement which you have challenged. I like "challenge" but the "counter-calculation" cannot be made without knowing what NPower consider is the "annual review" date (and the NPower "assumption" of annual consumption).

Whether it is reasonable that "annual review" is not the same as "anniversary review" (if that is the case) is another argument. Whether (if it is the case) that the NPower assumption on annual consumption includes "exceptional consumption" last winter, is also another argument. I say, smoke NPower out on the data, and drive a wedge into any inconsistencies in their online description of "Direct Debit" and "Review".

Sadly the OP and supporting posts did not offer-up their "annual review" dates and annual consumption "assumptions" necessary either to contest the NPower calculation and/or compute a correct and accurate counter-calculation. That is little better than entering monthly direct debit into a comparison website, something which "experts" recognise may not produce an accurate comparison.

I do not like "unwinnable" arguments, hence I steer in a particular direction. Whether a "summer" (technicallly late summer) zero balance is "illogical" (or not) perhaps is somewhat "abstract" but the accountant who designed "spring account balance" would understand (the logic).

DirectDebacle

jalexa wrote: »

The punative (and discredited) NPower seasonal weighting hasn't featured since Npower were exposed on the issue. Currently NPower tariffs (all I think) feature standing charges instead. And "deferred discount":eek:.

I worry about advice to "leave Npower now". There is the potential to forfeit £100 or so of "deferred discount":eek: unless leaving is aligned with the discount being earned.

See here for npower pricing policy

https://customerservices.npower.com/app/answers/websearch_detail/a_id/95

If you had read the posts you would have known that foxgloves and Bronnie had already announced their intentions to switch and that Bronnie had factored in the discounts when making the decision. Neither were advised to switch except by Meggsy who was merely endorsing Bronnies decision.


So no need for you to worry.

jalexa

DirectDebacle wrote: »

See here for npower pricing policy

https://customerservices.npower.com/app/answers/websearch_detail/a_id/95

from the document you link to...

"Does this seasonal weighting apply to all gas tariffs?
No, it doesn’t apply to..."

and then a list of current tariffs.

backfoot

jalexa wrote: »

The NPower online information about Direct Debit uses the term "annual review". Some posters see that as "anniversary review" but that is not the wording used. I am trying to encourage consumers to ask NPower what date (or month) is *their* "annual review". I am also trying to encourage customers to have an awareness of what is *their* "typical" annual consumption.

Both pieces of information are *required* to be able to *correctly* calculate a revised DD. I made a particular statement which you have challenged. I like "challenge" but the "counter-calculation" cannot be made without knowing what NPower consider is the "annual review" date (and the NPower "assumption" of annual consumption).

Whether it is reasonable that "annual review" is not the same as "anniversary review" (if that is the case) is another argument. Whether (if it is the case) that the NPower assumption on annual consumption includes "exceptional consumption" last winter, is also another argument. I say, smoke NPower out on the data, and drive a wedge into any inconsistencies in their online description of "Direct Debit" and "Review".

Sadly the OP and supporting posts did not offer-up their "annual review" dates and annual consumption "assumptions" necessary either to contest the NPower calculation and/or compute a correct and accurate counter-calculation. That is little better than entering monthly direct debit into a comparison website, something which "experts" recognise may not produce an accurate comparison.

I do not like "unwinnable" arguments, hence I steer in a particular direction. Whether a "summer" (technicallly late summer) zero balance is "illogical" (or not) perhaps is somewhat "abstract" but the accountant who designed "spring account balance" would understand (the logic).

Jalexa,

I found the above ever so difficult to follow.

Simply, if I join a supplier at any time,they set a DD amount to cover consumption for the next 12 months.

Any review, whenever,would try to judge whether the original consumption assumptions were correct.(or the price had changed).

A Supplier will have a spread of customers starting their supply at different times of the year. Some will have a cash flow advantage to them and others won't.

In my view,they shouldn't be able to manipulate or reset the starting point to suit themselves. They might like to, but it means that they have altered the original intention of monthly DD payment schemes.