Npower bill - had an increase?

Bronnie

My recent bill (6 monthly review/12 month anniversary if you recall from my previous post) gave both "predicted cost" and "predicted use" for gas and electricity for the next 12 months.

QUOTE Based on the information we have, we estimate you will spend £1054.62 (including VAT at 5%) on electricity and gas over the next 12 months. This is only a prediction, you don't need to pay this now. QUOTE

Having put my predicted usage into the npower price comparison page, the above predicted cost comes out with a monthly direct debit of £88.31 on the Go Save tariff I have been moved onto. Their Sign Online 24 tarif is cheaper with a monthly dd of £80.67

Even factoring in a notional £14 per month to pay off the current £165 debit balance it is a far cry from the £158 per month they have assessed it as.

jalexa

Bronnie wrote: »

Based on the information we have, we estimate you will spend £1054.62 (including VAT at 5%) on electricity and gas over the next 12 months

Thanks for posting the information.

Is the "game" they are playing to provide a "12 month" consumption estimate and then factor in 6 months of seasonally weighted consumption into the calculation? If so is that "deliberate" or just a poorly specified billing system? Is the new Edf system poorly specified or just poorly implemented? Remember the NPower system on Undercover Boss where the data was lost from the screen because the wrong key was hit?

I approach this behaviour not by saying it is a deliberate ploy (even if it might be), rather it is just plain wrong, and the unempowered, pressured customer service staff only have the time and authority to say "neit".

If anyone believes a calculation is wrong,or is not provided on request, there is nothing to lose by raising a formal Complaint, though I don't blame you for preferring the "out" option.

Bronnie

jalexa wrote: »

Thanks for posting the information.

Is the "game" they are playing to provide a "12 month" consumption estimate and then factor in 6 months of seasonally weighted consumption into the calculation? If so is that "deliberate" or just a poorly specified billing system. Is the new Edf system poorly specified or just poorly implemented? Remember the NPower system on Undercover Boss where the data was lost from the screen because the wrong key was hit?

I approach this behaviour not by saying it is a deliberate ploy (even if it might be), rather it is just plain wrong, and the unempowered, pressured customer service staff only have the time and authority to say "neit".

If anyone believes a calculation is wrong,or is not provided on request, there is nothing to lose by raising a formal Complaint, though I don't blame you for preferring the "out" option.

I honestly can't believe it is anything but calculated.

I daren't initiate a move for another few weeks in order to preserve my discount. I might as well toy with them for that time and see what can be achieved

DirectDebacle

DirectDebacle wrote: »

npower are masters of deception and their defininition of an annual review is I suspect a modified re-incarnation of their discredited 'tariff year'.

meggsy wrote: »

You could be right DD, annual review in npowerland should read bi-annual review ! With an anniversary date of March, this was on our June 2010 bill ..

"We check your payment amount every six months as we aim to ensure you'll have paid just the right amount by your annual review. We've now adjusted your payment to £175.00, taking your current balance into account in the calculation. We'll take this from your bank account with effect from 01/09/10 or just after" (up from £120)

December 2010 bill ...

"We check your payment amount every six months as we aim to ensure you'll have paid just the right amount by your annual review. We've now adjusted your payment to £163.00, taking your current balance into account in the calculation. We'll take this from your bank account with effect from 04/01/11 or just after".

On both occasions I had the DD put back to £128.

June 2011 bill and bi-annual review increased the DD to £156 - I didn't argue, they took one August payment before I switched away. Final bill was £70.

When they informed customers of bi-annual billing I expected them
in September and March to align with March anniversary date, not June and December.

Bronnie wrote: »

I honestly can't believe it is anything but calculated.

I daren't initiate a move for another few weeks in order to preserve my discount. I might as well toy with them for that time and see what can be achieved

I may be wrong but I think that npower are up to their old tricks here.

The videos Bronnie linked to clearly give the impression that DD are expected to be in balance after 12 payments. The text Bronnie quoted as to why this may not always be the case is unconvincing.

There is growing evidence that npower are attempting to ensure DD accounts are balanced by the end of winter by altering the anniversary date, which can cause extraordinarily high DD demands.

This can cause another problem for customers and another benefit for npower.

That is the DD discount. As we can see some customers, having got nowhere with having their DD adjusted to a reasonable level, are simply switching. Some may lose the DD discount because of this. Others may take matters into their own hands and cancel the DD and set up a new one for a reasonable amount (if possible) or request their bank to re-call the DD.

In the latter case I imagine that npower would then refuse to pay the DD discount on the grounds that the terms of the DD had not been met. I haven't seen any posts complaining of that yet, but it could be happening.

Customer care by npower of either accepting unwarranted DD increases or losing your DD discount if you don't, seems about right.

jalexa

DirectDebacle wrote: »

I think that npower are up to their old tricks here.

I think you are right but perhaps only giving effect to SLC27.15 where is says "...including information as to the quantity of gas which the licensee reasonably estimates has been or will be supplied...(my emphasis).

The problem (with NPower) is that they appear to be (Bronnie post?) redefining "on the fly", online information where "annual review" is defined with reference to the first meter reader reading.

Unlike Edf (and Eon I believe) who have a different "undefined but fixed") definition of "annual review".

DirectDebacle

Had a look on the npower site and here is their explanation of reviews.

https://customerservices.npower.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/39

If your statement refers to your annual review, we'll automatically refund any credit balance over £60 to your bank account within 10 working days, if it is based on an actual meter reading (taken by you or our meter reader). Or if you prefer you can ask us to carry your credit forward to reduce the next year's payment amount - just let us know as soon as you get your statement. Refunds of less than £60 are available on request.

If your statement refers to your mid-term review, you won't receive an automatic refund because you may have a credit balance due to the time of year. Monthly direct debit payments are calculated to ensure you reach a zero balance at your annual review. You may have built up a credit balance as it is needed to offset the additional energy you will use during the winter.

By following the links annual review is not described as anything other than this:

We arrange for your statements to align to the dates when our agent will read your meter to make sure that your usage is calculated correctly.
Your first review will be detailed on the first statement you receive after you have been with npower for 5 months.
Reviews will follow every 6 months thereafter.

No mention of anniversary date, year, 12 consecutive months or anything to tie them down to a particular date. They don't even use the term 'annual review'. They have elsewhere on the site a disclaimer as to why reviews may not occur when they say. Therefore no precise information as to when a DD account should be at zero.

Mid term review is described as this:

We arrange for your statements to align to the dates when our agent will read your meter to make sure that your usage is calculated correctly.
Your first review will be detailed on the first statement you receive after you have been with npower for 5 months.
Reviews will follow every 6 months thereafter.

So we know that the annual review is when the account is to be at zero but there is no precise definition of when an annual review will be. We know that the first review will be after 5 months (but may not be) and reviews are every six months after the first review, the date of which is unpredictable.

They are however much clearer on discounts. A DD discount will only be paid after 12 consecutive months of monthly DD payments have been completed and any other conditions have been complied with.

The videos imply that an annual review will occur 12 months after the start of the supply.

So all a tad contradictory. A DD discount is paid after a year but annual or yearly reviews, when the account is to be zeroed, can apparently happen at anytime.

Nothing in their standard T & C's to define reviews or year.

My view is that they are ignoring SLC 27 and just making rules up as it suits them.

The key componenet of SLC 27 is that it refers to Domestic Supply Contract.

If npower have no definition in clear, plain and intelligble language in their terms and conditions of the contract of when an annual review will take place, then the commom meaning of such a term will prevail.

That would be 12 months after the account was opened, or just as acceptable 12 months after the date the first DD was taken.

npower will say they are complying with their definitions because because they are conducting an annual review 6 months after an interim review.

As far as I can tell this is what they did with Bronnie.

Joins Oct, 1st DD taken Nov, interim review the following Sept (for reasons known only to npower they couldn't in this case do it after 5 months) as their get out clause allows them to do. Then by magic they can include on the Sept statement that the next review date is 6 months down the road and it is an annual review, as described in their mid term review section in the first quote at the start of this post.

Confused? I would be disappointed in npower if you weren't.

My opinion is that npower are of the view that they are following the letter of SLC 27 because Ofgem did not prescribe any time periods as to when DD are to be reviewed.

Their view fails because:

DD have to be managed within the T & C's of the supply contract. In the case of a rolling contract requiring 12 consecutive monthly payments then the DD payments should be achieving a zero balance after the 12th payment.

It matters not the frequency of reviews, the account must be balanced at the end of the 12 month period. Almost without exception that will mean the 12 month period starts on or near the date the supply contract was taken up by npower.

The main thrust of SLC 27 is simply to ensure suppliers give customers clear information as to how their DD (and any changes to it) are calculated and on what basis.

and,

That suppliers manage DD in such a way as to keep payments as reasonably accurate as possible within the terms of the contract in order that excessive balances are as far as possible avoided.

I would argue that in the posts we are discussing npower have at the very least failed to comply with SLC 27.

jalexa

DirectDebacle wrote: »

I would argue that in the posts we are discussing npower have at the very least failed to comply with SLC 27.

Not sure whether that was a reponse to my post or not. I'm not an NPower customer, never have been and TBH doubt that I ever will be, for very evident NPower behavioural reasons.

FWIW, I'm "open" about their compliance with SLC27, because I am not convinced about how SLC27 impacts "dates", but I am totally convinced NPower "review" behaviour is not in accordance with its own online procedures.

I prefer the Eon procedure which explains two things in a few lines that NPower and Edf fail to explain in one or more pages.

http://www.eonenergy.com/FAQ/Paying-By-Direct-Debit/Direct-Debit-Payment-Calculation.htm

Eon specifies their "take" on "annual review" date, the objective of the "review" and also that every meter reading (which results in a bill) is a "review opportunity".

Of course the calculation may or may not be correct, something currently being raised in another thread. Neither can I be certain that the Eon (and Edf) "take" on date is compliant with SLC27. However I do understand what they are trying to achieve. And they are not NPower:).

DirectDebacle

Not a response to your post. Just the result of digging into npowers website. As expected the deeper you go looking for an answer to a question the more confusing the answers become.

Interesting on Eons DD policy. I cannot see how it conforms with SLC 27. for any customer other than those joining in the spring.

Possibly in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regs.

Definitely against the raison d'etre of the DD scheme.

I wonder how a comparison site would show the DD payments spread for someone applying to switch now. If they just show an even split over 12 months then a nasty shock in store when you receive the DD plan from Eon.

I am against all this cloak and dagger jiggery pokery to align DD accounts to zero in spring.

If the energy companies were upfront and offered DD customers not aligned to spring a one off DD discount to realign (say £200 or something worthwhile) then I would look at it.

As it stands, manipulation of rules and regs just gets my back up.

Bronnie

DirectDebacle wrote: »

I wonder how a comparison site would show the DD payments spread for someone applying to switch now.
.

I tried this on npower's own comparison page last night. As per my post #52, npower's own comparison page shows monthly dd payments at annual consumption cost divided by 12. (Well it would, wouldn't it?)

jalexa

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Interesting on Eons DD policy. I cannot see how it conforms with SLC 27. for any customer other than those joining in the spring.

I don't disagree that there is a potential first year "flaw" in the "Eon spring aligned" system for part year payers. Unadjusted level payments for late starters will leave a first year annual review deficit, adjusted payments will leave the payment too high at the review date. I note the Edf online procedure addresses that issue by referring to a balancing payment (if necessary) being required at the annual review date.

I have no idea what system NPower are employing though I have a theory it is a "rolling 12 months" reviewed every 6 months. At best. Whatever system they are employing I find it totally obscure and I am a fairly old hand at this.

Personally I am adament that first year I will only pay level payments of 1/12 of my accurate "typical" annual cost. I am not an Eon customer so I do not know how they would handle that. I am however an Edf customer currently subject to the idiocies of a woeful new system, however "woefulbetide" them if they try to change my level payments ahead of the "first" annual review date without a watertight explanation.

ISTM the Regulations are no clearer than Regulations which allowed "guaranteed discount" tariffs to be placed at the top of Consumer Focus accredited comparison websites for at least a year by virtue of the initial discount being greater than the "guarantee" and claiming an increase within the guarantee band was "permitted", including application of "lock-in", a behaviour that Consumer Focus was pusillanimously silent about and indeed still is.

Sadly I predict a similar pusillanimous response to the "review" issue.

However individuals with a "case" should make best use of the Complaints procedure if the supplier's conduct is not either in accordance with Regulations or* in accordance with online procedure.

*choose your argument.