The Sunday Times today says most public sector workers are getting pay increases

Cleaver

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'm saying it wasn't a public sector decision in that it wasn't drempt up by the public sector.

It was private companies who created this plan and were draughted in by the government to create it.

It's ok blaming public sector workers, but it was a private sector proposal.

No it wasn't. Andrew Foster was the Workforce Director at the Department of Health in the early part of the 2000s who was responsible for the creation of the current payscale system. Him and his team based it on the previous Whitley terms and condtions of service which were also an incremental / payscale system. Unless you know something I don't? Which private company created the proposal for a new NHS pay system? Or do you mean the entire concept of payscales?

Cleaver

The_White_Horse wrote: »

a friend of mine is an IT contractor at a govt dept. He is now in his 8th year and has just bought himself a brand new aston martin. that is the public sector for you. this guy should be on a yearly salary of 35k. instead, god only knows what they are paying him. and he admits that he doesn't even do much. whilst technically he is "private sector" anyone person or company who derives their income solely from the public sector is public sector in my eyes. the govt needs to look into this MASSIVE waste. this is one person. it must be going on with at least tens of thousands.

Blimey, if that one instance annoys you then the outsourcing of a lot of the NHS to the private sector is really going to yank your chain. Once GPs get their hands on the budget it's going to be a dream for private contractors to absolutely rake it in from the public purse. A lot of the GP pathfinder commissioning groups are already taking on ex-NHS managers who have been made redundant from PCTs on consultant type contracts to set up their commissioning services. Friend of mine was on around £40k at a PCT, has left, and is working for around £500 a day for a GP group setting up the same system they were employed to run at the PCT.

FTBFun

dawyldthing wrote: »

i have this in mine as if i leave within 6 months i'll have to pay some of my training costs back

I work for an accountancy firm which brings in trainees every year (I was one originally). I believe if you leave before your 3 year training contract is up you have to reimburse the firm for at least some of your training costs.

kabayiri

Cleaver wrote: »

Blimey, if that one instance annoys you then the outsourcing of a lot of the NHS to the private sector is really going to yank your chain. Once GPs get their hands on the budget it's going to be a dream for private contractors to absolutely rake it in from the public purse. A lot of the GP pathfinder commissioning groups are already taking on ex-NHS managers who have been made redundant from PCTs on consultant type contracts to set up their commissioning services. Friend of mine was on around £40k at a PCT, has left, and is working for around £500 a day for a GP group setting up the same system they were employed to run at the PCT.

Indeed, unintended consequences eh?

I really don't get why NHS reform should be high on the agenda right now. There are things wrong, granted, but doesn't the government have more pressing issues?

Perhaps in true Private Eye form you should trace back the ownership of these groups...

Graham_Devon

Cleaver wrote: »

No it wasn't. Andrew Foster was the Workforce Director at the Department of Health in the early part of the 2000s who was responsible for the creation of the current payscale system. Him and his team based it on the previous Whitley terms and condtions of service which were also an incremental / payscale system. Unless you know something I don't? Which private company created the proposal for a new NHS pay system? Or do you mean the entire concept of payscales?

Sorry I should have been clearer.

There were numerous trade unions and "representative bodies" involved in this. It took 5 years. It wasn't something the government thought up. It certainly wasn't the work of one person. And it absolutely entirely wasn't the creation of public sector employees.

Cleaver

kabayiri wrote: »

Indeed, unintended consequences eh?

I really don't get why NHS reform should be high on the agenda right now. There are things wrong, granted, but doesn't the government have more pressing issues?

Over the past ten years Labour added manager after manager to the NHS. Along with nurse after doctor after scientist. Basically, every staff group increased along with cost. But especially managers.

What this government should have done is said we're not restructuring the NHS, but each organisation needs to cut around 30% of its managerial workforce. Simple. Or find a different way to save the same amount of money. Keep the structure, get rid of uneccessary staff. But that isn't obviously politically acceptable, hence we get massive reogranisation which will end up costing more than the previous system and will probably give patients a worse deal both in terms of their taxes and, more importantly, the standard of care they receive.

Cleaver

Graham_Devon wrote: »

There were numerous trade unions and "representative bodies" involved in this. It took 5 years. It wasn't something the government thought up. It certainly wasn't the work of one person. And it absolutely entirely wasn't the creation of public sector employees.

Graham, it was concevied, designed and signed off by the public sector. The Department of Health were behind it and, as you say, worked with the unions and various health bodies to put it in to place. In what way is not a "public sector decision" and wasn't "drempt up by the public sector"? It was a Department of Health decision and a team at the Department of Health designed it. Yes, they worked with representatives such as the NMC and bodies representing physios, scientists etc. but they are semi-public bodies anyway and did not conceive or 'dream up' anything.

ILW

StevieJ wrote: »

Just out of interest what super important job do you do?

Self employed, get paid exactly what I am worth. If my level of performance does not improve, I do not get a rise. If it falls, so do my earnings. Should be the same for everyone.

kabayiri

ILW wrote: »

Self employed, get paid exactly what I am worth. If my level of performance does not improve, I do not get a rise. If it falls, so do my earnings. Should be the same for everyone.

Do you sell directly abroad ILW? I'm curious.

I have tried (and sometimes manage) to sell custom data security/analysis services, mostly across the pond.

It's a difficult and risky process at times. It makes you wonder if it is worth the effort.

pqrdef

"I mean, what has the public sector ever done for us?"

"Roads?"

"Well, yeah, there's roads, obviously. But apart from that..."

etc etc etc