Audi GEARBOX fault within 3 months of purchase

Kennyboy66

vax2002 wrote: »

Yes you can sign your legal rights away, if you sign a trader transfer contract then you sign to say you are a trader and the sale becomes a trade to trade point of transfer.
You can not sign a contract claiming to be a trader and then change your mind later.
The way to enforce your legal rights is to read what you sign first and if you dont agree with the definitions in it, then don't enter in to the contract.
Attempting to prove unfair contract terms is never "just a turn up at court affair", it is a well drawn out expensive procedure

utter rubbish.

It is a business to consumer transaction.

You cannot sign your rights away in these circumstances, any attempt by a business to try and get a consumer to do so will always be unenforceable.

missile

funkycoldribena wrote: »

1.I would expect it to last a reasonable time when bought from a dealer,2.5 mths aint that in my book.(private sale then tough)
2.So how long should the OPs car have lasted then? Give me a mileage/timeframe.

In my humble opinion, 1 month or 1,000 miles whichever comes first

vaio

And two months or 2k miles for new ones?

DB.8609_2

Hammyman wrote: »

Not really. I can give you a long list of exact costs for replacing a whole slew of things simply from experience.

I'm sure you can. However, if you read my posts you will see he is a trader in his first year of business, he is NOT a mechanic and has certainly not picked up enough experience to guess a fee down to the exact penny.

As for the arguing over cut off points, ie 1 month vs 3 months vs 2000 miles etc... the OFT has handily set the benchmark at 6 months.

There are a lot of opinions being thrown around here, and whilst I appreciate the discussion, it would be nice if some of the bolder remarks could be accompanied with references.

For instance, regarding the "sold as seen" issue... it seems pretty cut and dry here:


10 ATTEMPTING TO LIMIT YOUR LIABILITY UNDER THE SALE
OF GOODS ACT (AS AMENDED)
10.1 A consumer's legal rights under the Sale of Goods Act (as amended)
cannot be taken away or restricted, and any attempt by you to do so by
using an exclusion clause or similar notice will be void and therefore
unenforceable. You will also be committing an offence under the
Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.
Examples:
• Stating that all cars are 'sold as seen', or writing 'unroadworthy',
'Trade Sale Only' or 'No Refund' on the invoice for the car, even if
the statement ‘this does not affect your statutory rights’ is included.
• Including terms in a contract that require the consumer to make
declarations about what had or had not been said about a car's
mileage and defects and/or affirming that they had examined the car
and had any faults pointed out to them. Such terms could be used to
exclude liability arising under the Sale of Goods Act. If untrue, such
'declarations' are ineffective and may mislead buyers with legitimate
grievances that they have signed away their rights. Where they are
true, such declarations are unnecessary.


Here is some other relevant info:



8.19 If a consumer seeks a repair or replacement (or when these are not
practicable, a partial or full refund) in the first six months after the sale,
and you dispute their claim, it will be for you to prove that the fault or
defect was not present at the time of sale. Where a fault or defect
emerges with a car in the first six months after purchase, it will be
presumed that the fault was present at the time of the sale.

8.20 If you dispute the claim you will need to refute the presumption by
providing reasonable evidence. It is not sufficient to rely on a pre-sale
'tick box' check of the mechanical condition of the vehicle as evidence
that the fault was not present at the time of sale. You will need a more
detailed report of the specific check you had carried out on the part. The
consumer does not need to provide any proof of the cause of the fault or
defect to be entitled to the repair or replacement – it is sufficient that a
complaint has been made to you.

8.21 It is important that the repair or replacement is carried out within a
reasonable time and without causing significant inconvenience to the
consumer. You must also bear any costs associated with doing so such
as transporting the car to a garage for repairs. Any repairs must also be
carried out with reasonable care and skill.


8.24 Where faults or defects with the car only become apparent after six
months, it is for the consumer to provide evidence that the fault or
defect existed at the time of the sale


*************

And here are some handy notes on non-compliance:

11 WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF NON-COMPLIANCE?
11.1 If you do not honour your obligations under the Sale of Goods Act (as
amended), the consumer may bring a claim against you in the County
Court using the small claims track for claims of £5,000 and below in
England and Wales and £3,000 in the Sheriff's court in Scotland.
11.2 You may also face enforcement action. The OFT, local authority Trading
Standards Services (TSS) and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and
Investment in Northern Ireland can take civil enforcement action against
you under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002 in respect of breaches of
the Sale of Goods Act (as amended) which harm the 'collective interests
of consumers' in the United Kingdom. Enforcers can use a range of tools
to ensure that businesses are complying with the law. This can include
applying for a court order to prevent or stop breaches. Breach of any
order could lead to up to two years imprisonment and/or an unlimited
fine.
11.3 Failure to meet your obligations under the Sale of Goods Act (as
amended) may also constitute a breach of the Consumer Protection from
Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.
11.4 The OFT is committed to ensuring enforcement action is necessary and
proportionate. The OFT follows the guiding principles set out in it's
Statement of Consumer Protection Enforcement Principles.



E. After-sales service
Complaints and enquiries
5.28 You must have an accessible, appropriate and user friendly after-sales
procedure to ensure that all customer enquiries are dealt with in an
honest, fair and professional/reasonable manner.
5.29 You must have an effective written customer complaints procedure,
understood by all staff who may come into contact with the public.
5.30 You must deal with complaints promptly, effectively and in a
professional manner.
5.31 You must make your best efforts to find a satisfactory solution to
complaints. You need to ensure that the steps you take to satisfy the
consumer are in accordance with reasonable expectations.
5.32 You must record all complaints and note the final outcome. You must
keep complaint records on file.
5.33 You should cooperate with any appropriate representative or
intermediary, for example a Trading Standards Service or Consumer
Advice Bureau, consulted by a consumer in respect of a complaint.











Contractual obligations
5.35 You must follow practices and procedures that ensure that you fulfil
your contractual commitments to customers, for example:
• by providing appropriate redress to consumers who are seeking to
enforce their contractual rights against you under the Sale of Goods
Act 1979 and the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers
Regulations 2002
• carrying out repairs to customer's faulty cars with reasonable care
and skill and within a reasonable time (or within the specific time
agreed) in accordance with your legal obligations under the Supply of
Goods and Services Act 1982.
Aggressive practices
5.36 You must not intimidate, pressurise or coerce customers, for example
through the use of threatening or abusive language, into dropping
complaints against your business. Any aggressive practice that is likely
to cause an average consumer to take a different decision is also
prohibited under Regulation 7 of the CPRs.

8.14 The consumer can request a full refund if this is within a reasonable time
of the sale. 'Reasonable time' is not defined in law and will depend on
the facts of each case - it can vary from a few weeks to a number of
months. The customer is not obliged to return the car to you but must
make it available for collection.


**************


This stuff is serious, it is here in black and white and I don't see how any motor trader can argue against these points. It's not opinion, it's the LAW.

As for the money, I really couldn't give a damn. I am fighting for principle here. I don't care if this even ends up costing me money (within reason). I simply want to prevent people like this dealer from treating people like crap.

If I posted some of his emails on here (which I will not, for obvious reasons), you would see how badly I have been treated.

funkycoldribena

Good on you,I'd do exactly the same if I was in your position.

Hammyman

DB.8609 wrote: »

I'm sure you can. However, if you read my posts you will see he is a trader in his first year of business,

How do you know that? Do you know his life story personally? Whilst his business may have been going a year, what was his previous employment from leaving school?

lil.smartie

8.19 If a consumer seeks a repair or replacement (or when these are not
practicable, a partial or full refund) in the first six months after the sale,
and you dispute their claim, it will be for you to prove that the fault or
defect was not present at the time of sale.

I think this can be argued in favour of the dealer as the OP did not notice any fault in the gearbox for 2000 miles and therefore can easily be stated that the fault was not there for those 2000 miles as the car obviously drove fine, so this was a sudden mechanical failure of the type that are usually covered by aftermarket warranties as opposed to a pre-existing fault that should have been picked up by the dealer, there was no way of the dealer having any warning that a sudden mechanical failure could occur.

I agree you have been spoken to in an appalling way & not treated as you should have been, you should not be put out if it is something they should need to rectify but you say that a garage has told you it's not down to the way you have driven the car but not what is actually wrong with it, do they know what has failed or are they surmising? I would get an estimate if they need to do some more diagnostic work 1st or a quote if they know the fault and approach the dealer with full info and the quote/estimate.

Kate

DB.8609_2

Hammyman wrote: »

How do you know that? Do you know his life story personally? Whilst his business may have been going a year, what was his previous employment from leaving school?

Yes, I do. I have a copy of his autobiography, which he was good enough to autograph for me before our relationship went sour.

I believe it is on sale at WHSmith for 50%. If you ignore the typographical errors and complete misunderstanding of the English language it's a pretty good read.

At age 5, his father began instructing him in Audi Gearbox failures, and would test him rigorously every day. He would make him guess quotations for gearbox refurbishment, and if he was even one PENNY out from the exact figure, his father would take his belt to him.

What emerged some years later was a marvel of the second hand car dealer world... a young man whom, whilst not able to spell or even string together a basic sentence, or even complete a single phone call without throwing a tantrum, was able to pre-empt a mechanic's quote TO THE EXACT PENNY. LITERALLY TO THE PENNY. INCLUDING VAT.

500/1.2 = 416.66666666666666666666666666666666666

Interesting figure excluding VAT.

When asked to break the figure down into labour, parts, sundries... he couldn't.

I am certain his full intention is for me to flatbed the Audi to B'ham, then tell me I'm out of luck. £600 down the pan for me.

I WILL persue him as far as legally possible. I do not care if I end up out of pocket. This is not about the money, I'm a surgeon and have the income you might expect. He already knows my profession and is now accusing me of trying to "get money out of him" and he thinks the car is perfectly fine and I am lying about the gearbox failure to grab a few quid. I cannot understand how his mind works.

To sum up, I am now sitting with 2 reports; the first saying that the fault is "highly unlikely" in the experience of the mechanic to be due to abuse. The second stating that having disassembled the gearbox, there is no indication of abuse.

This gearbox was obviously near breaking point at the time of purchase, and lucky for me OFT states that within 6 months, the dealer needs to provide PROOF that it wasn't. Which cannot be done.

DB.8609_2

lil.smartie wrote: »

8.19 If a consumer seeks a repair or replacement (or when these are not
practicable, a partial or full refund) in the first six months after the sale,
and you dispute their claim, it will be for you to prove that the fault or
defect was not present at the time of sale.

I think this can be argued in favour of the dealer as the OP did not notice any fault in the gearbox for 2000 miles and therefore can easily be stated that the fault was not there for those 2000 miles as the car obviously drove fine, so this was a sudden mechanical failure of the type that are usually covered by aftermarket warranties as opposed to a pre-existing fault that should have been picked up by the dealer, there was no way of the dealer having any warning that a sudden mechanical failure could occur.

I agree you have been spoken to in an appalling way & not treated as you should have been, you should not be put out if it is something they should need to rectify but you say that a garage has told you it's not down to the way you have driven the car but not what is actually wrong with it, do they know what has failed or are they surmising? I would get an estimate if they need to do some more diagnostic work 1st or a quote if they know the fault and approach the dealer with full info and the quote/estimate.

Kate

Thanks Kate.

I admit I did not notice any obvious issues. However that doesn't mean something was not ready to break.

My second car (when I was a student) was a BMW 3 series, not well treated, which I bought for £1600.

After around 5 months, pipes started bursting everywhere. I would repair one, then another, and another... as is inevitable. I couldn't afford to have anything replaced, and I knew it was a matter of time before it would cease limping along and would be on the scrap heap.

However... whilst the corrosion on those pipes was obviously going to cause a problem at some point... it is not something you can notice whilst driving. The first warning is the temp gauge flying up and steam pouring out of your bonnet.

Turned out I had been sold a cat B write off, I haven't bothered to pursue the dealer about it yet.

As far as I understand, if a clutch goes... it fails slowly. A gearbox tends to be a sudden event (I have no idea - just what I have been told).

Hammyman

DB.8609 wrote: »

To sum up, I am now sitting with 2 reports; the first saying that the fault is "highly unlikely" in the experience of the mechanic to be due to abuse. The second stating that having disassembled the gearbox, there is no indication of abuse.

This gearbox was obviously near breaking point at the time of purchase, and lucky for me OFT states that within 6 months, the dealer needs to provide PROOF that it wasn't. Which cannot be done.

So you are in possession of two reports that state that it is down to 105,000 miles of wear and tear which is what I've been trying to tell you all along.

And as I said, without dismantling the gearbox to do an internal inspection, you cannot reasonably ascertain what condition it is in if it is presenting no problems at the time and it would not be expected for someone selling something that is 9 years old to be required to do that.

Still, there is a say that "A fool and his money are often parted" and in your case, you're going to be parting with more than the repair cost. Somehow when you lose I doubt you'll be telling us.