Holiday in term time not authorised, will I be fined?

FBaby

flimsier wrote: »

This is an example of the sort of complacent thinking that I referred to above.

FBaby; no-one has said it will "destroy their education", but I manifestly object that it's ok for "bright children" and not others. In fact I would claim that if you want students to accelerate their progress, they need to miss as little as possible.

The other thing is this notion of "bright". It's the same as the notion of "gifted" or "talented". No-one is bright or gifted. No-one, not even Tiger Woods, is naturally talented. That's a myth. It's all about persistence and hard work (see a great book by Matthew Syed: Bounce). Hence by taking able students away from school you are doing some damage, however minimal. Don't try to justify it spuriously; just admit it has an effect and try to minimise it (or don't do it).

And how are you making the assumption that because you go away for a week in school time, the child is not hardworking???? My kids both got an 'A' in effort for every single subjects. They are VERY hard working, which was probably the contributory factor to my DD getting the 'pupil of the year award'. Do you really think the school would have giving to her if she wasn't indeed hardworking?

You are entitled to your opinion on gifted/talented children, call it what you want, it makes no difference. The point is that my kids are advanced in their learning and being away for a week made no difference to their levels. If I'd believed that missing 5 days (oops, 4 since one was for teachers decision to strike!) could have had a detrimental effect on their learning (for whichever reason), I wouldn't have done it. My kids education always comes first, but some kids are lucky to learn and adapt easily and not suffer from missing a few days.

duchy

It's all very well OFSTED coming down hard on schools for absence but I wish they'd come down equally hard on schools who think the last week of term is already a holiday and most lessons seem to involve the kids watching videos and the teachers sitting back and relaxing. I have friends who have had that last week refused -and then find their kids are learning nothing that week anyway.

As for what teachers think of parents and "name being mud in the staffroom" I've worked in schools and that is utter rubbish ! Most teachers are also parents and do understand -they may not think it's ideal but they have better things to do in their breaks than to slag off parents for something they'd consider doing themselves if they were able. Pick the week carefully and most teachers won't mind (even if they have to publically agree with the official stance). My son's primary school for years used to have a two week break in May and break up a week later in July than the other schools so people could take advantage of the cheaper rates (CoE schools apparently have some flexibility) until a couple of parents complained because it didn't suit them to have kids at different schools with different holidays -so although the majority wanted it-the minority forced the school back in line with the other schools.

The people who really annoy me are the parents who take their kids out at the beginning of the school year in September -which is the most crucial time both for getting back into the learning curve and socially for children -those to me are the selfish parents.

claire16c

FBaby wrote: »

And how are you making the assumption that because you go away for a week in school time, the child is not hardworking???? My kids both got an 'A' in effort for every single subjects. They are VERY hard working, which was probably the contributory factor to my DD getting the 'pupil of the year award'. Do you really think the school would have giving to her if she wasn't indeed hardworking?

You are entitled to your opinion on gifted/talented children, call it what you want, it makes no difference. The point is that my kids are advanced in their learning and being away for a week made no difference to their levels. If I'd believed that missing 5 days (oops, 4 since one was for teachers decision to strike!) could have had a detrimental effect on their learning (for whichever reason), I wouldn't have done it. My kids education always comes first, but some kids are lucky to learn and adapt easily and not suffer from missing a few days.

I agree.

I was taken out of school for the last week of the summer term or easter to go on a holiday quite a few times, and if I had stayed at school a lot of the time would have been spent watching videos, tidying stuff up, finishing stuff, not starting or learning anything new anyway - like Duchy said. (I also agree that taking children out in the first week of September is the worst time and am not advocating that).

I got 2 As and a B at A level and a First Class degree from a red brick uni, so it's hardly harmed me!

How on earth can missing 5 days affect a child that badly, especially if they are already doing well? Its not like we are born expecting to go to school for X days per year and if you miss 5 your brain suddenly stops working.

Also I often had zero sick days in a school year, whereas some children would be ill off school just for having a cough or minor cold, and they missed a LOT more time than 5 days! And of course that would be likely to be in the middle of a term and not at the end. I had be practically dying before my Mum would let me have a sick day.

FBaby

The time I took my kids off for three days was in February a week after there was bad snow on the road. As a result, the school left it 'open' for kids to come or not for two of the days. I made sure my kids went, we walked (took 45 minutes both ways) but it was quite fun. I was gobsmacked when they told me that evening that most kids had not showed up, some living only a few yards away. These kids most likely stayed home watching TV. Yet this was authorised absence whereas i wasn't authorised to take my kids off for one more day, when they got to go to a foreign country they didn't know about (and we all learnt a lot of new information, especially about volcanic landscape, lives of whales etc...) and my kids got to spend time with their grand parents they rarely see exposed 24/24h to a foreign language as my parents speak little english. I wonder who got more education during these days...

Of course it's all about being reasonable. I agree and would never take my kids out in September. I also wouldn't take them out if I was concerned about their learning or ability to catch up, if the teachers were concerned. I don't make a habit of it either (total of 7 days in 7 years), but I do find it ridiculous when I'm being made to feel like I am a bad parent for it.

wannabehermit

I only registered on here a week or so ago and have already noticed that lots of posters really give you a hard time if you've dared to make a mistake. It would be nice to be one of those people who has clearly never cocked up in their lives, but then maybe it wouldn't be so great getting things right first time otherwise how would you learn and improve?

No I haven't contacted Haven and I will do as much as possible to avoid any contact with Haven staff before the holiday arrives, they're far from flexible and having a ruck with them would only ruin the holiday for me. I clearly am not the only person who was unaware that the BH and half term have moved, another poster on this thread has admitted the same and as the private owners that I contacted at the site were quoting over £600 for the week I doubt very much that they knew either.

The OFSTED information is interesting as our school is bottom of the pile according to them (supposedly the worst juniors in the city and one of the worst 5 out of all schools) so I can understand that if OFSTED is on the heads back constantly she's not going to want to be explaining away these absences.

I will be taking the holiday as it's done now, I was unsure about fines hence the reason I started this thread, and I will be talking with the teachers beforehand to see what, if anything I can do with them over the proper half term.

flimsier

FBaby wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion on gifted/talented children, call it what you want, it makes no difference. The point is that my kids are advanced in their learning and being away for a week made no difference to their levels.

How do you know? It's literally impossible to know that.

flimsier

duchy wrote: »

It's all very well OFSTED coming down hard on schools for absence but I wish they'd come down equally hard on schools who think the last week of term is already a holiday and most lessons seem to involve the kids watching videos and the teachers sitting back and relaxing. I have friends who have had that last week refused -and then find their kids are learning nothing that week anyway.

Agree 100%. And I think OFSTED would if they knew about it. We have a list of 7 non-learning activities that are banned all year round (eg a wordsearch!) and I (and my team) check every classroom for videos, in particular in the last few weeks.

That's not to say videos are banned, though a teacher will have a hard time convincing me that they are making optimum use of their time by showing a video of more than about 10-15 minutes of length, and even then it should be in the Scheme of Learning (of which I have copies of every one).

If we waste the last week of term, we are giving up on about 7% of the students' education, and that's about a grade (ie if a student is off for 7% of time, the correlation is an average of a grade lower compared to 100% attendance).

flimsier

claire16c wrote: »

I agree.

I was taken out of school for the last week of the summer term or easter to go on a holiday quite a few times, and if I had stayed at school a lot of the time would have been spent watching videos, tidying stuff up, finishing stuff, not starting or learning anything new anyway - like Duchy said. (I also agree that taking children out in the first week of September is the worst time and am not advocating that).

I got 2 As and a B at A level and a First Class degree from a red brick uni, so it's hardly harmed me!

How on earth can missing 5 days affect a child that badly, especially if they are already doing well? Its not like we are born expecting to go to school for X days per year and if you miss 5 your brain suddenly stops working.

Also I often had zero sick days in a school year, whereas some children would be ill off school just for having a cough or minor cold, and they missed a LOT more time than 5 days! And of course that would be likely to be in the middle of a term and not at the end. I had be practically dying before my Mum would let me have a sick day.

Clearly 5 days affects a child less than 10. That's what I'm arguing. And I would also agree that 'illness' is a far bigger problem than unauthorised holidays.

But to argue it has "no effect" is to argue that almost every piece of research on the issue is wrong.

On the last week of term and schools "winding down", as I've already said, I agree.

Incidentally, I don't agree with all the stuff about September being the worst time; I think it's very hard to pick a "worst time" as it depends on the scheme of learning, the subject, the progression of the child within the lesson at that point in the year, and so on (all things you can't plan). One single lesson missed can make a world of difference (it can also make very little difference, obviously, but it's impossible to predict) to cognition of concepts. That much is obvious in subjects like Maths (you know the feeling of "I get it now" - you could miss that) but exists across the curriculum.

As for people saying "they're being made to feel like a bad parent" - I haven't said that. All I am arguing is that the attitude that 5 days means nothing is a poor one and one that is all too prevalent.

Edit:
Just looked at our top 10 attainers from our school last year (this August). We're doing a lot of work on promoting attendance because of the huge link between attendance and attainment.

Attendance in year 11 - 100%, 98%, 98%, 95%, 99%, 100%, 100%, 96%, 97%, 100%

5 days is equal to 2.5% of the year.

SINBAD_2

thatgirlsam wrote: »

Good golly - I am sure all teachers are not quite as judgemental as you....

...most of the teachers I know are very judgmental when it comes to parents taking their children out of school term time- illegally- to go on holiday. This is because us teachers really care about the students we educate and want them to do as well as possible, and we know that the best way for this to happen is for students to attend school.

halibut2209

it pees me off that schools and governments are quick to slap down on parents who take their kids out for a week for a (sometimes educational) holiday, yet have no qualms at all about taking over a month to place kids in a school after moving house (which is where we are at the moment)