Holiday in term time not authorised, will I be fined?

Bumpmakesfour

flimsier wrote: »

With a long discussion, the school might see it the same way and even be able to justify it as "education off site" (though that would be stretching the truth I suppose) - would be happy days all round!

DS' school is fab and they have been great with him.There have been a few holidays authorised under the disability act recently which has caused outrage amongst some parents.I'm simply putting in the request,stating brief reasons why it's a reasonable request in our eyes and seeing what the reply is

flimsier

Bumpmakesfour wrote: »

I don't see it as ludicrous.We will have DS' worksheets and reading books with us and he will catch up on any work missed.There is more to life than school work when you're 8 years old.Experiencing other countries,the food,a different currency..even a plane trip or helping to pack a suitcase are all valuable lessons too in my eyes.

Oh I agree there is more to life than school work. I really do.

But there's also more to school than worksheets and reading books, otherwise to be honest, there's very little point in schools as centres of learning. If we learn best from worksheets and reading books then there would be far cheaper ways of educating the population.

I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong; I am claiming that it's ludicrous to suggest that one can "catch up" as standard. Of course, it is better to do the worksheets and read books than not as well.

And, they are at school for 190 days a year for 11 years. I think the remaining 175 days are enough for balance.
I appreciate why different families take children out; of course I do. I just think we need to think twice (or rather think thirty-five times) because it makes a bigger difference to that narrow definition of success (results) than one might imagine.

milliemonster

Our local LEA for both my kids schools will still allow up to 10 authorised days per academic yr but you have to go in to see the head first and provide evidence of why you can only take holiday on the particular dates you are requesting, they give examples such as a letter from a health professional stating it is advisable the child needs rehab time if there have been medical issues, a letter from your employer saying you are contractually obliged to take those dates etc, so all have to be evidenced.

If you can't provide any evidence then holiday will be unauthorised and each parent is given a £50 fine, rising to £100 each if not paid within 28 days and a court summons if not paid within 42 days, our LEA is taking a real hard line with absenteeism now, I know my son's primary has had an issue last year with low attendance, OFSTED apparently classed anything below 95% as poor attendance, and 97% needs to be improved so there is little margin for time off! the school were sending out letters to every parent stating if their child fell below 97% they would be putting measures in place for discussions to improve attendance as otherwise the school could be put into special measures

Bumpmakesfour

flimsier wrote: »

Oh I agree there is more to life than school work. I really do.

But there's also more to school than worksheets and reading books, otherwise to be honest, there's very little point in schools as centres of learning. If we learn best from worksheets and reading books then there would be far cheaper ways of educating the population.

I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong; I am claiming that it's ludicrous to suggest that one can "catch up" as standard. Of course, it is better to do the worksheets and read books than not as well.

I pretty much agree with you tbh.I was sent to a private girls school from 7-18 and to my parents education was paramount,they provided a massive amount of input and support at home and in turn DH and myself are hugely involved in our own childrens education.We're those irritating parents who actually sign reading records/use communication diaries,who spend hours sat with the kids making costumes for world book days/WW2 days etc.We planned our days out in the holidays around the upcoming projects for this school year and visited relevant places blah de blah blah
There are molly coddled kids who get days off for fabricated tummy aches then you see them in kids world/tescos/the park by 11am ..my guys have to have their arm/leg/head hanging off to get a day off :rotfl:

FBaby

I took my kids out for 1 week in May. Previously I had taken them out for 3 days 3 years previously. It didn't stop my daughter getting the 'pupil of the year award' at the end of the year against 115 children. Taking bright children (by that I mean those who are advanced and don't struggle at school) out for a few days is not going to destroy their education. Incidently, this was the week of the strike, so I was pretty safe that the LA wouldn't have the guts to fine me for this week!

Their attendence record was still excellent as they had only had one day off sick for my DS and none for my DD.

flimsier

Bumpmakesfour wrote: »

I pretty much agree with you tbh.I was sent to a private girls school from 7-18 and to my parents education was paramount,they provided a massive amount of input and support at home and in turn DH and myself are hugely involved in our own childrens education.We're those irritating parents who actually sign reading records/use communication diaries,who spend hours sat with the kids making costumes for world book days/WW2 days etc.We planned our days out in the holidays around the upcoming projects for this school year and visited relevant places blah de blah blah
There are molly coddled kids who get days off for fabricated tummy aches then you see them in kids world/tescos/the park by 11am ..my guys have to have their arm/leg/head hanging off to get a day off :rotfl:

I don't think those parents are irritating. I find the parents I can't contact or who never answer their phoens irritating. Parents who are always in touch usually are doing so because they love their kids (an obvious point, but one we teachers can forget easily).

Bumpmakesfour

flimsier wrote: »

I don't think those parents are irritating. I find the parents I can't contact or who never answer their phoens irritating. Parents who are always in touch usually are doing so because they love their kids (an obvious point, but one we teachers can forget easily).

I love that,as a teacher,you see it that way But I swear I see little speech bubbles pop up around certain teachers heads when they see me coming..."oh god it's that bloomin woman ..again!!" :rotfl:

flimsier

FBaby wrote: »

I took my kids out for 1 week in May. Previously I had taken them out for 3 days 3 years previously. It didn't stop my daughter getting the 'pupil of the year award' at the end of the year against 115 children. Taking bright children (by that I mean those who are advanced and don't struggle at school) out for a few days is not going to destroy their education. Incidently, this was the week of the strike, so I was pretty safe that the LA wouldn't have the guts to fine me for this week!

This is an example of the sort of complacent thinking that I referred to above.

FBaby; no-one has said it will "destroy their education", but I manifestly object that it's ok for "bright children" and not others. In fact I would claim that if you want students to accelerate their progress, they need to miss as little as possible.

The other thing is this notion of "bright". It's the same as the notion of "gifted" or "talented". No-one is bright or gifted. No-one, not even Tiger Woods, is naturally talented. That's a myth. It's all about persistence and hard work (see a great book by Matthew Syed: Bounce). Hence by taking able students away from school you are doing some damage, however minimal. Don't try to justify it spuriously; just admit it has an effect and try to minimise it (or don't do it).

To be fair having had v little time off prior is obviously massively positive; but don't think that "it's fine because they're able".

flimsier

Bumpmakesfour wrote: »

I love that as a teacher you see it that way But I swear I see little speech bubbles pop up around certain teachers heads when they see me coming..."oh god it's that bloomin woman ..again!!" :rotfl:

I have those parents; especially ones who think we're there enemy. Usually they've had a hard time at school themselves to be fair. I find talking about the weather, the journey to school some other !!!!!!!!, and giving them a coffee before talking about anything means that we can talk rather than rant!

flimsier

milliemonster wrote: »

Our local LEA for both my kids schools will still allow up to 10 authorised days per academic yr but you have to go in to see the head first and provide evidence of why you can only take holiday on the particular dates you are requesting, they give examples such as a letter from a health professional stating it is advisable the child needs rehab time if there have been medical issues, a letter from your employer saying you are contractually obliged to take those dates etc, so all have to be evidenced.

If you can't provide any evidence then holiday will be unauthorised and each parent is given a £50 fine, rising to £100 each if not paid within 28 days and a court summons if not paid within 42 days, our LEA is taking a real hard line with absenteeism now, I know my son's primary has had an issue last year with low attendance, OFSTED apparently classed anything below 95% as poor attendance, and 97% needs to be improved so there is little margin for time off! the school were sending out letters to every parent stating if their child fell below 97% they would be putting measures in place for discussions to improve attendance as otherwise the school could be put into special measures

The OFSTED framework is not quite that harsh, but it's correct to say that they penalise schools at quite a high level now. I don't agree with them doing this (because as evidenced by some on this thread, it's very often the parents we're having to manage rather than our core business). However, I understand it - it's because the main cause of students not achieving their potential is attendance.

Parental engagement is also very high on the list (see research by Charles Desforges for example, and there's another paper by two people I've forgotten the name of), as is prior progresss (ie if you've made poor progress, you're likely to continue to), but attendance is number one. And 5 days is significant enough to make a difference because progress is not linear.