Holiday in term time not authorised, will I be fined?

FBaby

RadoJo wrote: »

Just to clarify for anyone who may misinterpret the way you have quoted in your post - that second quote was NOT from me.

I was just pointing out that although it had been stated that apparent 'talent' is often directly linked to the amount of work a person puts in, nobody actually said that your children weren't hard working, which seemed to be the impression you had. I can understand that you would be keen to defend your brood, but I don't think it helps to counter the findings of broad ranging studies with individual experiences - we all know someone who seems not to fit the norm, but if there is a general consensus amongst educational professionals that attendance and attainment are linked, then one single case which appears to disprove that does not necessarily undermine those findings.

I do mention flimsier in my quote, so don't see how people could have interpreted it was yours!

I am not disputing research findings, what I am disputing are teachers who hide behind data to make generalisations as a result. Indeed, maybe my kids are the 1% who don't fall under the category. Who knows! The bottom line is that I would expect their teacher and education establishement to consider them as individuals not statistics. I don't have anything against campaigns aiming at increasing attendance in school, on the opposite, but please don't have a fit when I say that I took my kids out for 5 days and don't think that will harm them in the long run.

It reminds me of those breastfeeding campaigners who can't help themselves but judge women who choose to bottlefeed because all the statistics show that it is massively better for their children. Well, yes, here we go, terrible mum that I am, I didn't breastfeed mine, as my mother didn't breastfeed my sister and I, and oh miracle, defiance of all statistics, all of us are doing very well, not one overweight person in the family, no asthma, all in good health, behaviour always commanded, very clever, having acheived higher education. Again, I have nothing against the promotion of breastfeed, i would actually encourage any new mums to give it a try, but that vilifying of those mums who don't really isn't necessary.

poet123

Studies have shown that summer learning loss is also quite detrimental to overall learning. In September we often play catch up for a few weeks with both academic and behavioural issues. Not too many teachers want to forgo the full six week break though to get around this, and I speak as an educational professional.

No one would condone a parent who habitually took two or more weeks each year term time holiday. However, that is not the reality, most parents are reasonably sensible and do understand that would be detrimental to their child. We are discussing the odd few days spread over an entire school career, and I am not convinced that is in the same league. We need to get a sense of proportion.

**Patty**

To be fair, you could argue about this all day long.

"This law basically states that children should be at school learning during term time, unless there is a valid reason for missing school approved by the head;"

Is this where those *valid reasons* include: Training Days specified by the school.......Teacher's strikes.......*snow* days.......closing early due to the proposed new intake Parent's Open evening (i kid you not)......

During the past school year, my DD's secondary has had in excess of 11 days of the above.....and probably more i can't recall....(3 children/3 different schools).......And the Head wants to quibble about 6 days for a family holiday?

On each one of the occasions listed above , my Daughter was physically able to attend school.......Education can't cherry pick about which rules it wants to apply & when. It's either all or nothing.:o

aliasojo

poet123 wrote: »

we are discussing the odd few days spread over an entire school career, and i am not convinced that is in the same league. We need to get a sense of proportion.

I completely agree. :T

Proportion does seem to be sadly missing when this topic is discussed.

Bumpmakesfour

**Patty** wrote: »

To be fair, you could argue about this all day long.

"This law basically states that children should be at school learning during term time, unless there is a valid reason for missing school approved by the head;"

Is this where those *valid reasons* include: Training Days specified by the school.......Teacher's strikes.......*snow* days.......closing early due to the proposed new intake Parent's Open evening (i kid you not)......

During the past school year, my DD's secondary has had in excess of 11 days of the above.....and probably more i can't recall....(3 children/3 different schools).......And the Head wants to quibble about 6 days for a family holiday?

On each one of the occasions listed above , my Daughter was physically able to attend school.......Education can't cherry pick about which rules it wants to apply & when. It's either all or nothing.:o

We can't use that ammo at our kids school unfortunately.When we had the bad snow school closed one afternoon..they didn't join the strike and took the teacher training day at the start of term on the monday unlike most schools in the area who had the tuesday so my guys started back a day earlier than most.It would take a nuclear holocaust to close my kids school so I totally see why our head takes a dim view of unauthorised absences.That said..I'll still be requesting the 5 days as originally planned despite the arguments against doing so in this thread

poet123

I agree with some of the above, but there is not much schools can do about the weather so snow days are not really a fair inclusion, nor are training days which are not included in the statutory days required in school. Strikes are a matter of conscience for the individual teacher over which the school per se has no jurisdiction, but when staffing falls below a certain level they have to take the decision to close on safety grounds.

However, I do have an issue with closing (as my son's school is doing this coming Thursday) for new intake day. Not a good example to set imo, if they expect parents not to put their own important issues before a school day. It does smack of hypocrisy.

**Patty**

poet123 wrote: »

I agree with some of the above, but there is not much schools can do about the weather so snow days are not really a fair inclusion, nor are training days which are not included in the statutory days required in school. Strikes are a matter of conscience for the individual teacher over which the school per se has no jurisdiction, but when staffing falls below a certain level they have to take the decision to close on safety grounds.

However, I do have an issue with closing (as my son's school is doing this coming Thursday) for new intake day. Not a good example to set imo, if they expect parents not to put their own important issues before a school day. It does smack of hypocrisy.

It's a new Head this term.

Must admit, even i was lost for words when i read that on the newsletter. (Not a regular occurrence:D)

edeneve

Well there are many very judgemental people on here!

My view on taking kids out of school is that we are the parents and if we can justify taking children out of school because we believe it is in the child's best interests then do it.

I am a psychologist and i believe the pressure exerted on children and parents is extremely detrimental to the family and children's well-being in general. All the number crunching and statistics so that children are seen basically as a number on a piece of paper at the end of the day.

If I want to take my children out of school because i believe seeing the world and taking part in cultural and social activities will enhance their well-being and education, i will. I cannot afford with a family to go in peak times so i will take them when i can afford it-why should my children miss out?

I have worked with teachers and know some excellent teachers and some very judgemental to the point of bullying teachers. I don't care a jot what they say or think of me, i am the child's parent and i will make the decisions not be dictated to, afterall i have to consistently change my plans when they choose to randomly close school due to staff training days etc.

I agree that teachers need more discipline in school but they should not overule parents. Afterall i am entitled to pull my child from school and home school them if i choose to do so.

The government has turned the uk into a nanny state, robbing parents most of the time of decision making powers, telling us if we do this, that we are bad parents.

I am not saying that parents should take their kids out of school willy nilly, no, but for a week or so a year i don't really think it is a problem.

I am an an academic, have a PhD so know the value of education........but life experiences, sociability, common sense and well-being far outweigh marks on a sheet.

I'll pay the fine if i have to but i will do as i see best in bringing up my children, not be dictated to by number crunching teachers and a government more bothered about statistics than people.

Feel free to criticise me the government hasn't banned freedom of speech, well as yet!

Oh and i have two children in college having left school with all A's and A* gcse's, a 15 year old son who is gifted in science and maths and just won a national competition for entreupreuners to run workshops at schools to help other children with science and maths and a 14 year old dong also very well predicted A's also. My 3 year old starts school next year and already has a vocabulary beyond his years and my baby....well we will see lol!

Above all the grades though they are happy full rounded, sociable children.

...and just because something is law doesn't mean it is right! It means we have to make a judgement call on whether our beliefs are worth taking the penalties issued. It used to be law that women could not vote, black people could not use public transport alongside white people etc, people's beliefs changed those laws quite rightly too.

poet123

**Patty** wrote: »

It's a new Head this term.

Must admit, even i was lost for words when i read that on the newsletter. (Not a regular occurrence:D)

I have had three older boy's go through this school and this is the first time this has happened.

I think it is reflective of the fact that schools are now businesses vying for customers, and as such they have to take "marketing decisions" which may be at odds with other issues.

**Patty**

poet123 wrote: »

I have had three older boy's go through this school and this is the first time this has happened.

I think it is reflective of the fact that schools are now businesses vying for customers, and as such they have to take "marketing decisions" which may be at odds with other issues.

Oh I do understand. It was more of an observation that *the school has done this in the evening for donkey's years but now YOU want to shut for half a day to get ready......if you don't like working late nights, don't look for a job as a Headteacher at one of the better Comp's in town* :D
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