Holiday in term time not authorised, will I be fined?

flimsier

Bumpmakesfour wrote: »

We can't use that ammo at our kids school unfortunately.When we had the bad snow school closed one afternoon..they didn't join the strike and took the teacher training day at the start of term on the monday unlike most schools in the area who had the tuesday so my guys started back a day earlier than most.It would take a nuclear holocaust to close my kids school so I totally see why our head takes a dim view of unauthorised absences.That said..I'll still be requesting the 5 days as originally planned despite the arguments against doing so in this thread

Teacher training days used to be school holidays for all until Kenneth Baker made teachers work an extra 5 days to sort out his mess.

flimsier

RadoJo wrote: »

Just to clarify for anyone who may misinterpret the way you have quoted in your post - that second quote was NOT from me.

I was just pointing out that although it had been stated that apparent 'talent' is often directly linked to the amount of work a person puts in, nobody actually said that your children weren't hard working, which seemed to be the impression you had. I can understand that you would be keen to defend your brood, but I don't think it helps to counter the findings of broad ranging studies with individual experiences - we all know someone who seems not to fit the norm, but if there is a general consensus amongst educational professionals that attendance and attainment are linked, then one single case which appears to disprove that does not necessarily undermine those findings.

Well said.

Bumpmakesfour

flimsier wrote: »

Teacher training days used to be school holidays for all until Kenneth Baker made teachers work an extra 5 days to sort out his mess.

So that means my kids teachers got a days less holiday than their colleagues at neighbouring schools then,as they had the training day on monday when other teachers were off and were back teaching on tues whilst others were training...

SINBAD_2

Bumpmakesfour wrote: »

Sorry, but I don't think I'm being judgemental, I'm expressing an opinion based on my professional knowledge and experience, and my respect for the law of the land. This law basically states that children should be at school learning during term time, unless there is a valid reason for missing school approved by the head; these don't generally include going on holiday.

I did not say you should take 'staffroom gossip' (your words, not mine) into consideration. However, I am pointing out that when parents take their students out of school for unauthorised holidays (I'm not talking about for funerals or medical appointments) this is usually seen in a bad light.

I am sorry to hear about the fact that your son struggles to enjoy holidays in peak season as a result of his Aspergers. In my first year of teaching, I taught an Aspergers student, and I tried to adapt all of my activities to enable him to access what I was teaching, in consultation with his parents.
You sound like a very understanding teacher,we are lucky that DS' teacher is the same and bends over backwards to make his school life that bit easier

However, I am genuinely not trying to be harsh, but many parents would like to take their children out of school for a holiday in term time: if the head was to agree to your request, could s/he turn down in all fairness turn another child's parents down who said they could only afford a term time holiday due to financial reasons, or another child wanting to attend an overseas wedding, or indeed the o/p who got the dates mixed up.....
I know of three families who cited the disability act in their holiday request making it very clear a refusal would not be taken lightly.One family with a child with a similar condition to DS in his class are in portugal right now.I chose not to play that card and will put in a normal request,accompanied by the reasons why.If it's turned down I'll take the fine

You write as if we are all 'entitled' to a holiday anyway: are we? In many countries, parents dream about being able to send their kids to school...
Agreed and point taken but I don't live in those countries,I live in the UK,in an area where generally holidays of some sort ARE the norm


If you disagree with the law, write to your local MP, don't complain about the head: they are only applying the law.

Where have I complained about the head?I actually like the head

You talk about breaking the law based on 'what's best for your family': is this a valid reason for breaking this and other laws?

Your son sounds like a bright kid: have you considered getting him a scholarship to a local prep/independent school? It sounds like he needs challenging, and there is the added advantage that private schools often have different holiday dates to state schools, thereby avoiding the hassle of holidays at busy times. He has an open evening on nov 10th at the local boys smaller private school,with view to sitting the bursary examinations Tx for your reply,always good to hear different view points x

Thank you for understanding my points, even if we do not totally agree, and for replying in a fair and reasonable way. I appreciate that, and wish you and your son all the best

aliasojo

flimsier wrote: »

I'm making no presumptions. I'm saying 5 days can make a difference to any child.

Can I just step in here and say I think it's all relative?

My daughter, quiet, lacks confidence, wimpy kid (I said that lovingly ) had time off for a special holiday when she was in primary school.

She swam with dolphins, learnt about wild animals in their own habitats and interacted with people and wildlife that she would never normally cross paths with.

We worried about keeping her off school, but her teacher at the time told us the trip would benefit her, much more than a week away from learning the times tables would harm her. And she was right. Our daughter experienced something that helped bring her out of herself and yes, she missed out on some work at school but she caught up again and no harm was caused to her education.

I think it's a very difficult subject and I can see both sides. Nothing in life is ever black and white though and I think schools are wrong for going down the 'blanket ban' route tbh.

Bumpmakesfour

SINBAD wrote: »

Thank you for understanding my points, even if we do not totally agree, and for replying in a fair and reasonable way. I appreciate that, and wish you and your son all the best

Thankyou very much x

SINBAD_2

thatgirlsam wrote: »

Do you really think that parents don't know that!
Sometimes it's hard to tell: look at the harsh words I've had from some people for simply stating that as a teacher, my professional opinion is that children should be in school during school time.

What we are trying to explain to you is that sometimes it is up to us to decide what we beleive is best for our child at that particular time

No, that's incorrect: being a parent does not automatically give you the right to decide what is correct for your child. The example in question here is you think you have the right to remove your child from school for family social events- the law says otherwise. Another example could be: you are driving your child to a dance lesson, you are late, so you drive at 40mph in a 30 mph zone 'as you believed it was right for your child at that particular time.'

As I said, I took my kids out for a day unauthorised to attend their Great Grandfathers 90th birthday party

How many chances do you think you get to celebrate a family members 90th birthday - We had relatives that they had never met coming over from Poland to attend the party. Could it not have been on the weekend?

I wanted my children to be there, for my Grandad and for them - I beleived this experience was more valuable to them that a day at school - My son is 6 and my daughter 11

I really don't know where teachers like you get off on telling me what is best for my children - I will decide that! You don't know me, but I can tell you I don't 'get off' on telling you what's best for your children. I get my kicks from preparing and delivering good lessons (I'm working on outstanding), and having a good, productive relationship with my pupils based on mutual respect and discipline.

Do you know, I work in a hospital and teachers are the worst patients, absolute control freaks most of them are. My wife works in a hospital too, but I can't see how this is relevant. Anyway, you're generalising, and by now this post seems to have turned into a teacher bashing rant.

Poet I do not include you, You have 100% respect from me, If my kids have teachers like you I shall be chuffed

If you came and watched me teach, and saw the results I get at GCSE for my students, you might say the same about me too!

thatgirlsam

SINBAD wrote: »

If you came and watched me teach, and saw the results I get at GCSE for my students, you might say the same about me too!

Maybe I would, who knows

But to suggest that a party of 100 people should be re-arranged just so my kids don't miss one day of school is laughable -There were people coming from different countries and taking their kids out of school for more than one day to do so

The party was on a Sunday evening anyway, the day of his birthday, It is a 5 hour drive away

Anyhoo I don't need to justify my postion to you :rotfl:

The Law thing, Is a crime committed if you take your child out of school for a day?

vax2002

And these "teachers" want us to have sympathy when they cut the pension money us mortals have to pay in tax to top up your pensions ....

SINBAD_2

edeneve wrote: »

Well there are many very judgemental people on here!

My view on taking kids out of school is that we are the parents and if we can justify taking children out of school because we believe it is in the child's best interests then do it.

I am a psychologist and i believe the pressure exerted on children and parents is extremely detrimental to the family and children's well-being in general. All the number crunching and statistics so that children are seen basically as a number on a piece of paper at the end of the day. And the pressure exerted on teachers from parents who think they know best is quite stressful to!

If I want to take my children out of school because i believe seeing the world and taking part in cultural and social activities will enhance their well-being and education, i will. I cannot afford with a family to go in peak times so i will take them when i can afford it-why should my children miss out? The argument of many parents who choose to put a holiday above education.

I have worked with teachers and know some excellent teachers and some very judgemental to the point of bullying teachers. I don't care a jot what they say or think of me, i am the child's parent and i will make the decisions not be dictated to, afterall i have to consistently change my plans when they choose to randomly close school due to staff training days etc. Read the newsletter, check the website, 'phone the school: training days are normally noted from the start of the year.

I agree that teachers need more discipline in school but they should not overule parents. Afterall i am entitled to pull my child from school and home school them if i choose to do so. No you can't have it both ways: by showing your kids that rules (the law; the wishes of the headteacher) can be flouted at will, you are undermining the authority of the ordinary class teacher.

The government has turned the uk into a nanny state, robbing parents most of the time of decision making powers, telling us if we do this, that we are bad parents. Maybe: but here we're talking about the fact you are meant to send your kids to school during term time.

I am not saying that parents should take their kids out of school willy nilly, no, but for a week or so a year i don't really think it is a problem.

I am an an academic, have a PhD so know the value of education........but life experiences, sociability, common sense and well-being far outweigh marks on a sheet. Not if the mark is a C grade at Maths GCSE for example, without which it is hard to get a job.

I'll pay the fine if i have to but i will do as i see best in bringing up my children, not be dictated to by number crunching teachers and a government more bothered about statistics than people. Yes, I admit to being a number-crunching teacher: the numbers that show the more days a student is in school, the higher grades they typically get.

Feel free to criticise me the government hasn't banned freedom of speech, well as yet!

Oh and i have two children in college having left school with all A's and A* gcse's, a 15 year old son who is gifted in science and maths and just won a national competition for entreupreuners to run workshops at schools to help other children with science and maths and a 14 year old dong also very well predicted A's also. My 3 year old starts school next year and already has a vocabulary beyond his years and my baby....well we will see lol!

Above all the grades though they are happy full rounded, sociable children.

...and just because something is law doesn't mean it is right! It means we have to make a judgement call on whether our beliefs are worth taking the penalties issued. It used to be law that women could not vote, black people could not use public transport alongside white people etc, people's beliefs changed those laws quite rightly too.

Yes, and it was about this time that free, universal education did not exist!