Do dad's have any rights?

MrsBryan_2

Hi everyone...I know a lot of you have had experience in this area....any help would be very very greatly appreciated! so I'll be a quick as possible to try and get all the facts together! Quick rundown....
SIL left brother approx 4 months ago for another man. Been together 20 years, since they were 17(her) and 21 (him).
Came out of nowhere, she'd been going out a lot with new work mates, met this guy and then didnt love my brother anymore.
Brother was obviously devastated and in bits.
She moved out with kids (b14, g11) into flat about a mile away. Had a full time job but got her rent paid for her with benefits. Brother saw children every day after school when on early shift, (Mon-Fri), and weekend (Fri-Mon) when on late shift. Plodded along for a couple of months, she was texting him every day saying how she loved him and was so sorry....even turning up at the house early one morning to pick up kids and getting in bed with him....basically playing with his head. Inviting him in for a glass of wine when all her friends were there, showing him new underwear she'd bought etc etc.
Fast forward a couple of months, ALOT has gone on and she's now given up her job and living with her new bloke. The kids are too. She's still got her flat but cant afford to live there....lease is up November so will properly move into boyfriends then.
She's went round her sisters house telling her all about how she's taking all kinds of drugs, sleeping with women while her boyfriend watches and is having such a wild time, she wishes she'd done it sooner. Her sister called my brother straight away as she was worried about what she'd told her.
My brother then spoke to a solicitor who basically told him he has no rights.
He said:
She can move the kids anywhere in the country, and in with whoever she wants, regardless of who they are.
You need photographic evidence of her drug taking (bit hard when she seems to do it behind closed doors).
You can ask for a drug test (hair follicle) but have to have her permission to do so...court order takes 3 months, drugs stay in hair for 6 months...and if she refuses you still have to pay all the costs.
And lots more that are all in her favour!!

So to all you very helpful people out there who have unfortunately been through this sort of situation, have you any advice?

mummyplus3

I'd suggest he keeps in her good books and hopes the kids make the choice to come and live with him soon. Although father's are meant to have equal rights itdoes seem very hard for them to be acheived.

Person_one

If he's truly concerned for the safety of his children he can contact social services. Anyone can if they are worried a child may be in danger.

Dads don't get to dictate how their children's mothers live their lives, best thing to do is to offer them a happy and secure home for the time they are with him.

FBaby

i think he needs to pay less attention to what others are telling him and more to his kids. They will be the one telling him/showing him any signs of distress or worry. If he starts making assumptions and react to it, most likely when at least half of it in untrue, all he will do is alienate the kids.

For all he knows, maybe the sisters had a big argument and the sister called your brother and told him a bunch of lies to get back to her. All you mention is so stereotypical, personally, that would have been my first reaction...

I would also advise you stay out of it all. You seem to have a picture of your brother as an innocent victim of a spiteful woman. You don't know what happened behind close door. Yes she left him for another man, but reasons for affairs are complex, and rarely black and white. Your best position is to stay out of it all and try to remain civil for the benefits of the children.

janninew

Why can't your brother go for full custody and Mum have visitation rights? Children aren't always best staying with Mum, I know a few couples where Dad has full custody and they manage fine. Maybe he needs to see a solicitor, some offer free 30 minutes slots, he could go for some general advice and take it from there. What do the children want? Surely at their age, their views are taken in to account as well?

Mojisola

Bearing in mind what the others have said that this could all be an exaggeration, it might be worth him getting in contact with one of the organisation for fathers rights. If some of this is factual and he allows it to go on, it won't be good for the children.

What the solicitor said was sort-of right. To be exact, he should have said that the Parent With Care has the power to do those things. If the children were living with your brother, he would be able to move to another part of the country, could move in with a new girlfriend, etc. I'm sure he wouldn't want his ex to be able to control all the details of his life.

Mojisola

janninew wrote: »

Why can't your brother go for full custody and Mum have visitation rights? Children aren't always best staying with Mum, I know a few couples where Dad has full custody and they manage fine. Maybe he needs to see a solicitor, some offer free 30 minutes slots, he could go for some general advice and take it from there. What do the children want? Surely at their age, their views are taken in to account as well?

This is worth looking into. If she does want to live wildly to make up for what she thinks she's missed out on, the children are going to get in her way.

clearingout

no, dad's don't have many rights, but nor do mums, it's the children who have a right to a relationship with both their parents. At 11 and 14, the children's wishes would be taken into account but you are on dodgy ground if you ask them outright who they want to live with - it's essentially asking them to choose between mum and dad. I would suggest he keeps lines of communication open with them - texts them regularly, uses e-mail, social networking sites etc. if they're members and makes it clear he is there for them. They will eventually vote with their feet.

It is worth noting, however, that there is no suggestion that mum isn't looking after the children appropriately. I assume they have been in school on time every day and their school reports were about usual? Having a word at school to see if everything appears OK would be a good place to start - and the sign of a 'good' parent who is concerned about the effects of relationship breakdown on his children? Mum is a consenting adult, she can have sex with half of England if she's not putting herself at risk and the children aren't really aware of what is going on, can't she? Equally, drug taking is much the same - if she's feeding the children, they have clean clothes and are in school on time, there's little else to be said.

janninew

clearingout wrote: »

no, dad's don't have many rights, but nor do mums, it's the children who have a right to a relationship with both their parents. At 11 and 14, the children's wishes would be taken into account but you are on dodgy ground if you ask them outright who they want to live with - it's essentially asking them to choose between mum and dad. I would suggest he keeps lines of communication open with them - texts them regularly, uses e-mail, social networking sites etc. if they're members and makes it clear he is there for them. They will eventually vote with their feet.

It is worth noting, however, that there is no suggestion that mum isn't looking after the children appropriately. I assume they have been in school on time every day and their school reports were about usual? Having a word at school to see if everything appears OK would be a good place to start - and the sign of a 'good' parent who is concerned about the effects of relationship breakdown on his children? Mum is a consenting adult, she can have sex with half of England if she's not putting herself at risk and the children aren't really aware of what is going on, can't she? Equally, drug taking is much the same - if she's feeding the children, they have clean clothes and are in school on time, there's little else to be said.

I agree with that, but equally Dad could ensure all the above happens just as well. I think the children should be consulted, maybe they would prefer to live with Dad instead of moving in with Mums boyfriend in November? His son at 14 years old especially is old enough to decide what he wants.

FBaby

That's why I believe what he should be doing as a priority is to 'observe' his children. Has their behaviour change, are they quieter, are they hinting that they are unhappy, or see things they shouldn't, how is their sleeping, are they weepy, are they talking in a negative way about their mum, her boyfriend etc... That is the best way to assess how well the children are doing rather than going by hearsay.

If the children appear fine, then I would certainly not push any buttons as there would be potentially more to lose than to gain. Your brother also need to be careful not to transfer his feelings towards his ex on his children. If indeed she has led him to believe that she might come back to him to then go with the new guy again, he is probably full of anger and this might cloud his judgement of her as a mum.

If however the children genuinely seem down, unkept, suddenly agressive, snappy, withdrawn etc.., I would sink action immediately, first my trying to get them to open up gently without any judgement and then by seeing a professional if deemed required.

make_me_wise

MrsBryan wrote: »

She moved out with kids (b14, g11) into flat about a mile away. Had a full time job but got her rent paid for her with benefits. Brother saw children every day after school when on early shift, (Mon-Fri), and weekend (Fri-Mon) when on late shift. Plodded along for a couple of months, she was texting him every day saying how she loved him and was so sorry....even turning up at the house early one morning to pick up kids and getting in bed with him....basically playing with his head. Inviting him in for a glass of wine when all her friends were there, showing him new underwear she'd bought etc etc.

She's went round her sisters house telling her all about how she's taking all kinds of drugs, sleeping with women while her boyfriend watches and is having such a wild time, she wishes she'd done it sooner.

Sounds to me like this SIL of yours just says alot of things for effect. I get the distinct impression she is having some kind of midlife crisis or breakdown. If she got together with your brother at just 17 and he has been the only one ever since, maybe in some weird way she is trying to re-capture her youth. Do all the wild, stupid, crazy things she wishes she always had.

One other thing that crossed my mind whilst reading your post is are you all absolutely sure she hasn't recieved some bad news and isn't handling it well? From what you say this all came out the blue and as a complete shock to your brother. So I am assuming before all this she was the perfect wife type and he assumed they were solid. A friend of my dh went completely off the rails for a while because he had been diagnosed with a serious illness and couldn't cope with facing up to it or dealing with it.