Stolen Orange UK SIM Card - Orange UK expect me to pay them for the costs

wantmemoney

Noely wrote:

So it seems that there is little I can do by the amount of replies telling me it was my responsibility. I accept that I should have had a PIN setup but clearly there is nothing I can do about that now.

Another question then, my contract with Orange is registered to a UK address but I now am a resident of Botswana, if I accept the 50% of charges they have offered and then do nothing about it, I have read that after 6 six years the debt is no longer in my name, is that true?

@Noely
unfortunately I can't offer you any advice on your problem but now forum members appear to have stopped offering advice I'll use the opportunity to suggest to you the main contributing factor(apart from the SIM lock)why you find yourself in this impossible situation.

In 2002 the European Commission told all the European governments that they wanted all phone accounts to be subject to the same protection laws that credit cards are subject to.
This would have protected the customers 'home' account irrespective of where in the world the phone/SIM was lost or stolen and forced the Networks to monitor and act on abnormal use.

Orange and the other UK networks successfully lobbied the UK Government to have the phone accounts exempt from the proposed rules.

grumbler

wantmemoney wrote: »

In 2002 the European Commission told all the European governments that they wanted all phone accounts to be subject to the same protection laws that credit cards are subject to.

I have not heard about this, but this looks like one of many idealistic and unrealistic ideas produced by the Commission.
Unlike sim cards, credit cards are protected by pin codes, signatures and online passwords. They can be used only in ATMs and at retailers that can lose money if they accept a fraudulent payment.

A sim card can be used in any unlocked phone. Can you imagine a credit card that can be used in any ATM without a pin code?

It would be much more realistic to allow customers to set spending limits on their accounts if they want (some networks are doing this already).

Orange and the other UK networks successfully lobbied the UK Government to have the phone accounts exempt from the proposed rules.

Hardly a surprise. Well done. Otherwise we all could have ended up paying through the nose for the carelessness of those who keep losing their phones and sims several times per year. This has happened already with mobile phone insurances.

Chorlie

And this the reason I not only have a PIN for my Phone but more importantly a PIN on my SIM, that way they can't run up my bill if they stole my phone or SIM Card.

I know it's now a case of bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted, but for others who haven't got a PIN on there SIM Card active it today, because it my be stolen tomorrow.

wantmemoney

grumbler wrote:

I have not heard about this, but this looks like one of many idealistic and unrealistic ideas produced by the Commission.
Unlike sim cards, credit cards are protected by pin codes, signatures and online passwords. They can be used only in ATMs and at retailers that can lose money if they accept a fraudulent payment.

A sim card can be used in any unlocked phone. Can you imagine a credit card that can be used in any ATM without a pin code?

the Regulation and consumer protection measures that were proposed was Technology neutral and its actually the company that's subject to it.

From recollection the actual reason given by the Networks was that it would have been too difficult to train their Network staff to the same level of competency and understanding that bank and credit card company staff operate to.

ps.....I was on the Regulatory/Consumer protection side.....not the Telecoms side at the time

Guys_Dad

wantmemoney wrote: »

the Regulation and consumer protection measures that were proposed was Technology neutral and its actually the company that's subject to it.

From recollection the actual reason given by the Networks was that it would have been too difficult to train their Network staff to the same level of competency and understanding that bank and credit card company staff operate to.

ps.....I was on the Regulatory/Consumer protection side.....not the Telecoms side at the time

They were able to enforce the £40 limit within most of the EEC, but they obviously had no power to tell the rest of the world what to do. And, of course, there is the time lag between incurring overseas networks' costs and them informing the home network.

It would be great if it was possible for users to set their own monthly cap so that the phone was suspended when that limit was hit - data, texts and voice and that the limit was global. It will come I am sure, but in the meantime it is important that people are aware of the current deficiencies and take sufficient care to use all the protections available to protect their property to avoid horrendous bills

Silk

grumbler wrote: »

I think this is true only if Orange (or other company that they sell the debt to) do nothing for 6 years to recover the debt.

However, the default record in you credit file is unlikely to stay there for more than 6 years.

Hi grumbler
Sort of correct ....... It becomes Statute Barred after 6 years (5 years Scotland) provided the debtor does not make a payment meanwhile ...or for that matter acknowledge the debt in between by trying to get a settlement figure etc etc.
The company can carry on chasing it during the 6 years but doesn't affect it

It will be removed from the credit file at the end of 6 years ..although usualy takes a month or two after that

chanz4

unless a ccj is started on the 5th year

Silk

chanz4 wrote: »

unless a ccj is started on the 5th year

Well strictly speaking that could be done although unlikely .....By the letter of the law a CCJ of course never becomes Statute Barred but after 6 years they would have to apply to the courts again to enforce it and give just cause as to why they hadn't acted sooner etc.