NHS Dentistry Petition

Toothsmith

BTW - The PETITION Now stands at 1001!!

Big thanks to everybody, especially Ken, it was stuck in the Mid 800s when we started our 'discussion'!

Savvy_Sue

kenshaz wrote:

I believe that health care and education should be available for all irrespective of ability to pay,it is a basic right in the 21st century,you had the option of chose ,some do not have that option.

Well I believe that too, but in relation to education, the sad fact is that if you want higher education, you have to pay for it. So should I discourage my children from higher education because it's no longer free?

I know in the good old days when I did my degree, there were means-tested grants and it was hard on those whose parents were assessed as having the means to support their offspring but declined to do so. But now, pretty much everyone has to fund themselves by way of loans. I don't like it, and I didn't vote for it, but I do have to live with it.

Same with dentistry: I believe a basic (not necessarily cosmetic) dental service should be available to all, but it's not. And frankly, the NHS treatment I've had over the last few years isn't good enough for me or my family any more. So, shall I let my children's teeth rot and fall out in protest, or shall I dig deep and get them to a decent dentist - who's actually SAVED my husband £600 of NHS charges over the next couple of years by suggesting an alternative treatment plan?

Opticians: we all used to get free eye checks, now only a select few do. So shall I not go any more in protest, even though I'm a driver and reaching the age when my arms are no longer long enough to read small print? Shall I make my teenage boy wear whatever glasses are available free with an NHS voucher, increasing his reputation as a complete oddball (which incidentally he was quite happy to do!), or shall I pay a reasonable amount for a pair of glasses which suit him, which are comfortable, and which add to his air of gravitas?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the NHS and I've certainly had my money's worth out of them with the brain surgery and the follow up scans, but I'm not going to pretend that ALL of the NHS works as it should, and I'm certainly not going to put my health / wellbeing or that of my family at risk to preserve some illusion that all is well with it.

In fact DH needed a bone density scan last year, and we'd have gone private for that if there hadn't been a 2 month waiting list for PRIVATE scans, and only a 3 month wait on the NHS.

Toothsmith

And then there's physiotherapists Sue.

There are shedfuls of unemployed newly qualified physiotherapists around at the moment because the NHS doesn't have the money to employ them - despite the need.

These guys have debts from student loans, and no way to earn a living at the subject they have studied (And been trained to do at great expense to the state)

Applying Kens philosophy, these people should, of course work for free within the NHS, as they have a great debt to the society that trained them, and that overrides any selfish interests such as earning a living.

A generation of physiotherapists are going to have to go abroad to work if they want to work as physiotherapists, or join private physiotherapy centres, or do a different, lower paid job.

Maybe you could attach a physiotherapy centre to the dental practice you are going to build for us Ken?

Optimist

This is not just a problem that effects physios it also effects doctors and indeed other professions within the NHS. Many are in the same boat they have finished training and no jobs. The problem being, the government put in funding to train them but then did not fund the jobs within the hospitals ergo no jobs to go to.

domdent

NHS budget 1.4 billion aprox
population aprox 60 million

spend per person £23.33

How can this budget provide comprehensive care for patients ?

The NHS will need to ration care for dental patients either openly or by stealth using the pretext of this new contract

Toothsmith

domdent wrote:

spend per person £23.33

Excellent point, and it says it all.

It is fair to say though that only half the population attend the dentist regularly, so we could say £35 a year for each regular attender, with £11 a year saved up in a pot for the other half of the population who only ever show up when in pain.

If every single patient got their NHS entitlement, I could then put my fees for monthly patients down by £2-3 a month.

Then, everybody would get some benefit from the NHS, not just a few who are lucky/unlucky enough to have an NHS dentist

sabbykins

kenshaz wrote:

I am bewildered as to why you wish to promote private sector health .

Its quite simple Ken, i am not prepared to let mine & my children's teeth go to ruin for the sake of 'supporting' a sinking ship. And how does me draining the NHS further by using it just because i am entitled help it one iota?
I am very fortunate, my husband and i work hard, we aren't rich but we don't smoke, drink or gamble and so have the money to go private (with the help of HSA dental plan) It saddens me that millions can't afford the privelige and i see them every day in my town walking about with their teeth either rotting away in their mouths or teeth missing because the NHS has extracted them rather than repairing- because that's all they can afford to provide under the current funding.
Should i join the hoards and sacrifice mine & my family's teeth for the NHS?!?!
Tell me why i should do this Ken, because I'm not convinced by one word you have typed (or C&P'd) up until now......

I have the funds to purchase private treatment ,but I never will,because I have basic principles and I will not adopt the attitude I am alright Jack.

You actually think you are helping the NHS somehow by using it even though you don't need to? Bizarre!

Toothsmith

A Written Reply from the lovely Rosie Winterton.

Strange how they seem to have all the information they need to declare NHS dentistry an astounding success since the introduction of the new contract, and yet something as basic as 'How many dentists have left?' isn't recorded!!!!

kenshaz

Why should I pay twice,just to enhance the living standards of private sector dentists.I have received NHS treatment all my life ,with the exception of my military service and all is well and will continue .What puzzles me is why you are prepared to pay an additional amount to a private practice ,when he was trained by the NHS ,practiced in the NHS ,wow does he/she suddenly become extra special and offer superior treatment,living under a delusion,ultimately it is the skill and experience of the individual and believe me it is not a requirement to be private to acquire it.Then we have the GDP's who have a split practice ,same dentist ,do they allocate all the worst dentists to the NHS patients.
Sabbykins are you stating that those who can avoid private treatment should give up their right to treatment ,and allow it to be used by the poor.

Toothsmith was probably brought up in a working class back-ground ,state educated and now he has delusions of grandeur,business man before caring professional that is what his statements say.

Savvy_Sue

At least two of my previous NHS dentists weren't trained by the NHS: they trained abroad and came here to practice. At least two of the local NHS dentists I haven't used are in this position too.

And frankly, I've always found Toothsmith and the other dentists on here very caring, very professional, and deeply upset by the situation they find NHS dentistry in. Remember, TS is not the only one saying it's a mess ...