NHS Dentistry Petition

kenshaz

Vocational training takes place at NHS practices

kenshaz

Please give a list of private sector non NHS dentists who take on vocational trainees in their practices and assist in the qualification of the UK's dentists.

Teerah

kenshaz wrote:

Please give a list of private sector non NHS dentists who take on vocational trainees in their practices and assist in the qualification of the UK's dentists.

A dentist does not have to do vocational training :rolleyes: Only if they ever want to become a principal in an NHS practice and lets face it, that is not going to be much of an incentive in the future. A dentist is fully qualified when they leave university, vocational training is about gaining experience only.

Savvy_Sue

kenshaz wrote:

Savvy -Sue why are you seeking out Dentists that are trained abroad ,first of all you want private non NHS dentists ,now you want foreign trained GDP's,please explain your conclusions ,without clouding the issue with personal experiences,just facts.

You are misunderstanding me, I have NOT sought out foreign trained dentists: this is what the NHS has provided for me and provides in this area.

I was quite happy with one dentist, to the extent that I recommended him to all my friends - at least a dozen joined the practice as a result. Then he left, and was replaced by an older dentist. He never seemed to want to treat anything, even when I complained of 'niggles'. One friend found the contrast so great that she tracked down our previous dentist and started to travel 30 miles to see him! 'Do nothing' dentist was retired, I believe on the grounds of ill health - certainly his hands were shaking during examinations, which hardly inspired confidence. He was followed by a foreign dentist, possibly Finnish, certainly Scandinavian of some kind.

Did I seek this foreign dentist out? No, I did not. Was I even given a choice? No, I was not. I would arrive for an appointment and say I was booked in with Dr X, and be told that he'd gone and Dr Y would see me.

We moved 100 miles, and I asked for recommendations for a dentist. The practice we've just left was recommended, and we saw a delightful lady dentist who gave excellent care. Unfortunately for us, she went on maternity leave. I was not as happy with the dentist who covered for her maternity leave, but there seemed little choice. The practice was by this time 'mixed', with the senior dentist (who owned the practice) offering mostly private treatment. Again, we were never given any information or choice about who we would see.

Our original dentist returned, but then went on maternity leave again, and I never saw her again. That's when the Swede took over: he has now bought the practice, although the original owner still practises there, but now completely privately. There's now the Swede, and I believe a Dutch dentist offering NHS care. Oh, and I've just discovered that the original practice owner won Dentist of the Year for patient care in 2004, by which time I believe he'd left the NHS ...

I mentioned other local surgeries with foreign NHS dentists only because in researching alternatives to a dentist I was unhappy with, that's what I found. I would go into a surgery to ask whether they were taking new patients, and would be told that on the NHS they had x dentists from this or that country - I never asked this, the information was volunteered - and y dentists offering private care. Of course I do not know where the private dentists trained, and frankly I don't care. But what the NHS offers in this area seems to be predominantly foreign trained dentists, and not enough of them.

I agree - and so does Toothsmith - that it's a disgraceful situation when people cannot afford basic NHS dental care - but please tell me how the new contract helps that? When a filling used to cost less than a tenner, and now costs £45? When 3 fillings used to be charged for separately, and are now all lumped into the £45 charge? Can a good dentist do 3 fillings in the time it takes to do 1? Would you WANT them to? If not, is the labourer not worthy of his hire?

domdent

kenshaz wrote:

The universities are government funded to provide dentists for the NHS ,so lets clear that point up.
Do dentists leave the universities and set up in private practice ,they become associates in NHS practices.

Dental students are like any other graduates they are trained to be dentists to go out into society and work, or not, a significant number of female denists never work full time

upon qualifynig dentists can work where they like

At present the NHS is the major contractor (note not employer as they dont employ dentists in the GDS) so it would seem that most new graduates were destined for the NHS.

The current undergraduates where I teach are worried about being able to pay back their student loans as there is evidence that new graduates cannot get jobs.

Some associates go straight into private practice

domdent

kenshaz wrote:

But there is no difference,the final result is the same ,I believe that my NHS dentist is as good as you any day.

Well thats the problem

10 % dentists are adept
40% are competant
50 % take a guess

when you sit in the chair having dental treatment do you really think you get the same standard of care at every dentist in the country ?

the skill of each dentist varies like any other profession that requires manual dexterity

KDH_2

More reasons to sign the petition

all published today

http://shrunklink.com?sdk

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http://shrunklink.com?sdn

http://shrunklink.com?sdo

http://shrunklink.com?sdp

sabbykins

The links above are very alarming and reflect exactly what this thread is all about, for the first time in my life i am aware of the politics behind dentistry- that's not what the NHS should be about.

My fave quote from the Times Online

The good news is you’ll finally be able to hold an intelligible two-way conversation with your dentist without your half of the dialogue making you sound like you’re trying to cough up a hairball (Dentist: “Going anywhere nice for your holi-day?” You: “Gragbergh.” Dentist: “Sounds idyllic. By the way, did you know you have a hairball in your throat? Have you been licking your cat?”).

The bad news? Well, the reason your dentist will be able to understand what you’re saying is that he won’t have his sharp instruments poking around your gums, because the NHS is running out of money to pay him to fix your teeth.

kenshaz

Teerah wrote:

A dentist does not have to do vocational training :rolleyes: Only if they ever want to become a principal in an NHS practice and lets face it, that is not going to be much of an incentive in the future. A dentist is fully qualified when they leave university, vocational training is about gaining experience only.

Yes ,but practice makes perfect,actually doing the job is in my opinion the biggest learning curve.So vocational training is rather important.

kenshaz

domdent wrote:

Well thats the problem

10 % dentists are adept
40% are competant
50 % take a guess

when you sit in the chair having dental treatment do you really think you get the same standard of care at every dentist in the country ?

the skill of each dentist varies like any other profession that requires manual dexterity

So we would not realise that perhaps the private sector dentist is not as adept as the NHS one ,but we are paying for the privilege to find out .