Employer went into my account to 'reclaim' overpayment

Jariya

Naf wrote: »

Yes, I had a bike under the bikes4work scheme, but there was not £700 left outstanding. I also do not remember the hire agreement stating that it would be deducted from my final salary; only that the amount would become due within 14 days of leaving the company and they would contact me regarding it. This is likely to be another oversight on my part :-S

At the end of the day they've made a mistake one way or the other, I don't think I've acted unreasonably, although maybe a little hurriedly.

Just a quick reply here..but these loan agreements when you are employed and get them from your employer - it's pretty much par for the course..as in..the loan is not £1000's and is pretty minimal in the scheme of things.
This is very common that it's within that loan agreement to take the cash when you leave.

I had an offer of a loan for rail travel a few years back - then saw that they would take the lot in my final pay and I would owe anything about that amount immediately (in fact - that was when I was at Citibank!).

I declined the loan offer because of this..and was made redundant about 6 months after receiving the loan offer as they outsourced the behind the scenes loan accounting out to Chennai in India.

Right..gonna look at the mails for you..

Naf

Jariya wrote: »

My apologies, I missed this.

I have also read the OP's next post and will quote and go through it to the best of my knowledge once this post is done.

My posts are not intended to be mean. I apologise for perhaps a lack of empathy shown - it was intended more in the way of being straight with things that I am aware of having worked in finance in many sectors over the years.

The due process which you mentioned..yes absolutely! The employee should have been informed (having read the next post..there is a bit of a 'however...' to add to that which I will explain in my next post breaking the emails down (I wanna be in the sun! But I will reply..it might take me a while so bear with me please - this is for yourself and obviously predominantly the OP (opening poster).

On the subject of being aggrieved..of course! I would be too..except I have a 'however' to add to that I'm afraid as well.

Just one thing to add..and the reason for my posts having come accross showing a lack of empathy..when I have asked for help myself on something financial/work related or even on a relationship I prefer the hard line..tell me what you know with no fuss. Be blunt..don't make it rosy when it isn't rosy.

This is where my responses are coming along the lines of..because I would rather know that it is going to end in tears because it gives me a chance to be proactive about it rather than reactive.

But..that is just me..my apologies if I have sounded harsh and I may well sound harsh with some of my responses to the copied mails as well. It is meant with good intentions so that the person with this nightmare (because I would be having a nightmare if the same happened to me too) knows a bit more about where they stand.

To be honest, if I don't like the way you say something, I take the tone with a pinch of salt; but I'll still take in the information and the intention.
I'm just annoyed at them really, pretty apathetic toward the rest. I'll be making payments to the account, on my terms, and they'll know they'll not really get any further by taking me to court anyway. I think they could be a bit more helpful given this wouldn't have happened if they did their jobs properly.

DVardysShadow

Naf wrote: »

Maybe this might help?

Ah!! What I missed was the fact that you have left them.

It is even worse of them to claim a right of setoff, because at that point [presumably], you had ceased employment.

Now they do say they have a right to reclaim the money in common law. This is correct. But they do not claim common law for the use of setoff - they claim a right in contract. This is the point you should challenge with them. Ask them to identify what contract provision applies and by what means it applies to you. They should be able to put you firmly straight if they do have the right of setoff.

Uncertain

Jariya wrote: »

It varies how long you have before claiming a recall depending on the account and bank. I've actioned a recall once which had to be done two weeks after the payment was made and it was returned to us successfully.

I find the quite extraordinary! Two Weeks!! I'm amazed / appalled.

"It depends on the account and bank"!!! In what way? On who's band, the instigator or the recipient?

Surely there must be a clear answer to this otherwise how on earth do you know if a payment will be recalled or not?

coysters

You took out a contract with the bank to supply services for money, that was your employment contract, right?

The terms of that contract state how and when you will be paid and how much. I understand that you are comfortable that the bank have calculated your pay correctly?

This question has nothing to do with banking, it relates to an emplyers ability to put money into your account and take money out of oyr account. The answer is that an employer can. It is necessary so that they can withhold taxes on your behalf and get your pay right.

That said, what they have done is not good and I agree that they should pay you any damages for going into your overdraft, but they probably don't have to.

Jariya

Uncertain wrote: »

I find the quite extraordinary! Two Weeks!! I'm amazed / appalled.

"It depends on the account and bank"!!! In what way? On who's band, the instigator or the recipient?

Surely there must be a clear answer to this otherwise how on earth do you know if a payment will be recalled or not?

I must stop reading responses for a bit!

It all depends on how the bank accounts are set up, the banks policy and the agreements in place.
This particular instance was when someone was awaiting about £3000 in expenses. I'd made the payment to them but they hadn't notified me of a change of bank account (for the expenses side - I don't deal with salaries and never have - but I do know something about them just from my own experience and over hearing this and that).
The member of staff had informed my finance director of his change of account for his salary but not me. In hindsight my FD could have asked me to check - he didn't. Plus some people in that company (and I'm sure it happens elsewhere too) had one account for salaries and one or even two others for expenses of differing kinds.
Our staff were regularly informed (monthly actually) that should their expenses need to be paid to a different account to contact me asap.

The member of staff requested the recall..I had already requested the recall when I found out his bank account had been changed.

So the £3K had gone into ..or effectively..not gone into a dead account and was in the bank's holding account.
The recipient got his expenses was happy and the matter resolved within about a week and a half.

Naf

coysters wrote: »

This question has nothing to do with banking, it relates to an emplyers ability to put money into your account and take money out of oyr account. The answer is that an employer can. It is necessary so that they can withhold taxes on your behalf and get your pay right.

Er, no. It is necessary for them to be able to make payments to my account, but other deductions are made before the money is released to me. If it were the other way around I would be responsible for paying my own tax. Am employer has no automatic right of access to its employee's accounts, or the money they have been paid once it had been released to them. It could, in theory, be included in the terms of employment, I suppose; but I can't find it in mine...

Naf

Jariya wrote: »

I must stop reading responses for a bit!

It all depends on how the bank accounts are set up, the banks policy and the agreements in place.
This particular instance was when someone was awaiting about £3000 in expenses. I'd made the payment to them but they hadn't notified me of a change of bank account (for the expenses side - I don't deal with salaries and never have - but I do know something about them just from my own experience and over hearing this and that).
The member of staff had informed my finance director of his change of account for his salary but not me. In hindsight my FD could have asked me to check - he didn't. Plus some people in that company (and I'm sure it happens elsewhere too) had one account for salaries and one or even two others for expenses of differing kinds.
Our staff were regularly informed (monthly actually) that should their expenses need to be paid to a different account to contact me asap.

The member of staff requested the recall..I had already requested the recall when I found out his bank account had been changed.

So the £3K had gone into ..or effectively..not gone into a dead account and was in the bank's holding account.
The recipient got his expenses was happy and the matter resolved within about a week and a half.

Try telling Tax Credits, Housing Benefit, Child Benefit, JSA that payments can be reclaimed. I agree they can, under some circumstances, but most places will refuse to do it under any.
Oh, and if it's not actually hit an account (i.e. its closed) and is sat in the bank's holding account, the system is supposed to return it automatically anyway; not the same as reclaiming payments that have been successfully applied to an account.

Uncertain

Jariya wrote: »

So the £3K had gone into ..or effectively..not gone into a dead account and was in the bank's holding account.
The recipient got his expenses was happy and the matter resolved within about a week and a half.

Sorry but that is a totally different situation.

What I'm asking is this....

I make a payment to somebody (you even) to the correct bank account. I then find I have made an error and paid too much or maybe shouldn't have paid anything.

Can I reclaim under these circumstances? If so, is there any time limit?

Suppose I sell you something and we agree I will release the goods once your payment has cleared. You seem to be suggesting that there is no clear answer to if / when that will happen.

Naf

Uncertain wrote: »

Sorry but that is a totally different situation.

What I'm asking is this....

I make a payment to somebody (you even) to the correct bank account. I then find I have made an error and paid too much or maybe shouldn't have paid anything.

Can I reclaim under these circumstances? If so, is there any time limit?

Suppose I sell you something and we agree I will release the goods once your payment has cleared. You seem to be suggesting that there is no clear answer to if / when that will happen.

Sure he's not confusing Banking with Paypal?
Sorry, I'm being facetious.
There must be guidelines of some sort... working in branch I never had much part in the reclamation: we just sent a message to the dept who would (in theory) do the rest. I can't say I remember the money ever being directly reclaimed though, it would be returned to the customer based on the cooperation of the receiving bank. After all, what's to stop me sending money to my wife, sister, parents, a friend then we go withdraw it from their account, then I return to my bank and say I only meant to send £100, not £1000. Who's problem is that other £900?