MSE News: Escape energy lock-ins as prices soar

DTDfanBoy

gentlebloke wrote: »

I appear to have incurred the wrath of the forums so-called 'experts'. It's a simple point - you, as a consumer, cannot insist that a supplier adhere to SLC23. We as consumers can insist on anything we choose The regulator may decide, at some time in the future, to impose a penalty for not doing so. Who knows? If suppliers continue to flout the terms of their license I'm sure that will be the case However, parties to a contract can insist that each other abide by the terms, with legal penalties for non-compliance. Excellent point, as Scottish Power* amended their contract when they gave notice of the price rise I'd expect them to abide by those terms and conditions* I have a life, so cannot spends hours on here debating abstract points - if you really want the minute details ask the people at Consumer Direct.

*I think it's safe to assume that any supplier not wanting to breach their license conditions would have amended the contracts they hold with their customers.

* One of Scottish Power amended conditions

5.8 If [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]we [/FONT][/FONT]increase the price or vary other terms of the [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]Agreement [/FONT][/FONT]to [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]your [/FONT][/FONT]significant disadvantage [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]we [/FONT][/FONT]will notify [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]you [/FONT][/FONT]of that increase or variation by giving [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]you [/FONT][/FONT]at least 30 calendar days’ notice before the date the increase or variation takes effect. If you do not accept the increase or variation [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]you [/FONT][/FONT]are entitled to end the [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]Agreement [/FONT][/FONT]by giving [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]us [/FONT][/FONT]notice to end the [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]Agreement[/FONT][/FONT], at any time prior to that increase or variation taking effect[FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]. [/FONT][/FONT]If [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]you [/FONT][/FONT]give [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]us [/FONT][/FONT]that notice, the increase or variation will not take place. However the increase or variation will come into effect if, within 15 [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]Working Days [/FONT][/FONT]of [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]you [/FONT][/FONT]giving that notice to [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]us[/FONT][/FONT], [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]we [/FONT][/FONT]do not receive notification through the relevant supply industry processes that another [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]Gas Supplier [/FONT][/FONT]will begin to supply the [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]Premises [/FONT][/FONT]within a reasonable period of time after that notice has been given by [FONT=Dialog,Dialog][FONT=Dialog,Dialog]you[/FONT][/FONT].

Do you have any other completely baseless claims you'd like to be disproved

Consumerist

gentlebloke wrote: »

It's a simple point - you, as a consumer, cannot insist that a supplier adhere to SLC23. . .

If a supplier refuses to comply with any of its licence conditions then the consumer can refer a complaint to the Energy Ombudsman who will require the supplier to comply and may also award compensation to the consumer where appropriate. If the consumer accepts the Ombudsman's final decision, the supplier must put in place any remedy that he has asked for. The Ombudsman's final decisions are legally enforceable. You may confirm this for yourself by visiting the Energy Ombudsman website.

Sorry if I misunderstood your initial posts but you didn't quote from the posts you were replying to - hence the misunderstanding. It would seem you have since discovered how to do this.

backfoot

I am afraid that 'Gentlebloke' has tried to resurrect the argument that the Suppliers were previously using to justify why discounted, guaranteed and some other variable tariffs were exempt from SLC23 and associated SLC's.

That argument, which the original MSE article accepted, was that having a Condition which states that a tariff price could change became a 'Principal Term' of the contract. If it became a' Principal Term' then, it was argued, there could be no 'Unilateral Price Variation' and therefore the contract was not broken.

The thorny question was that such a Condition was at odds with the spirit and intentions of the SLC's. Furthermore the SLC's govern the drafting of Energy Contracts by Licensed Suppliers.

It was an untested area where Contract Law lay alongside but was at odds with a SLC. I had debated this very point at length with a Lead Commercial Solicitor from one of the Energy Companies. It was indeed a grey area, alongside whether or not these Conditions were Unfair or not, within the terms of Consumer Protection Legislation.

Interestingly and significantly,that Supplier had already made a voluntary Policy not to levy Termination Fees following price increases.

Nevertheless , I asked OFGEM to clarify the matter. They did so in their Guidance Letter of 16/8/11 to Suppliers.

There can now be no doubt where the Energy Ombudsman would make a finding and indeed given that guidance how a Contract Law Court would find.

I still can't work out why this poster has come up with this now outdated argument or why he is irritated at the Forum Experts' (his derogatory term).

Usually such comments come from people with a vested interest, who take things personally, when Customers win an argument over these big boys.

Basically, it is a red herring and given that he has a life (his phrase) I suspect that may be the end of it.:D

grahamc2003

backfoot wrote: »

Basically, it is a red herring and given that he has a life (his phrase) I suspect that may be the end of it.:D

This isn't Japan - surely he's not going to top himself just because he was (apparently) wrong?.

backfoot

grahamc2003 wrote: »

This isn't Japan - surely he's not going to top himself just because he was (apparently) wrong?.

:rotfl::rotfl:

Brilliant.

meggsy

Which campaign - email Ofgem to tackle confusing tariffs

http://www.which.co.uk/campaigns/energy-and-environment/tackle-tariffs/tackle-tariffs---email-ofgem/

It's worth a try for the sake of a click

Consumerist

meggsy wrote: »

Which campaign - email Ofgem to tackle confusing tariffs
http://www.which.co.uk/campaigns/energy-and-environment/tackle-tariffs/tackle-tariffs---email-ofgem/
It's worth a try for the sake of a click

OK. Done that. Shame they keep the Chief Executive's email address a secret. I wonder why.

Edit
I'll have to take that back. Received an email from Ofgem CEO's office within seconds. Unbelievable !

tipsychick

Hello everybody

I switched to EDF's OSV7 late last year for both gas and electricity but as in so many cases, EDF failed to apply the correct tariff and put me on their standard one. This meant that I was not notified in writing of the price increases effective from 14th July 2011.

I understand that EDF are not enforcing the early termination fees if you switch away from OSV7, so I could have switched without penalty then, if I'd known.

I'm just coming to what I hope will be the end of an official complaint with EDF and I'd like them to consider switching me from OSV7 to whatever would have been a better deal for me from 14th July 2011 but I can't even find what EDF were offering on the 14th July!

Would anyone be able to give me a precis of what was available?

Thanks in advance.

backfoot

tipsychick wrote: »

Hello everybody

I switched to EDF's OSV7 late last year for both gas and electricity but as in so many cases, EDF failed to apply the correct tariff and put me on their standard one. This meant that I was not notified in writing of the price increases effective from 14th July 2011.

I understand that EDF are not enforcing the early termination fees if you switch away from OSV7, so I could have switched without penalty then, if I'd known.

I'm just coming to what I hope will be the end of an official complaint with EDF and I'd like them to consider switching me from OSV7 to whatever would have been a better deal for me from 14th July 2011 but I can't even find what EDF were offering on the 14th July!

Would anyone be able to give me a precis of what was available?

Thanks in advance.

Not in depth sorry. From memory there were a series of new Online Saver tariffs up to number 10/11?

Many people were attracted by the two fixed tariffs V2 and the March 2014 product.(these will be more expensive)

I personally switched to SP's Direct Oct 2012.( a variable tariff)

Some/most of these are no longer available.

Use a comparison website for the relevant units and key them in as your existing tariff to get a cost for some of these alternatives. Choose the cheapest and compare with the OS7 charges.

Ask for compensation plus a goodwill payment for the difference.

Then do another brand new Comparison to find the best tariff for your needs from all Suppliers going forward.

Just ideas.:)

Goldensock

I work for EDF and can say that this is an interesting article as most call centre staff are UNAWARE that exit fees can be escaped during a price change.

Just another case of information not being passed down from our legal / pricing team!!

Regards,

Golden