transfering from ib to esa

NASA_2

cit_k wrote: »

Another way to lose money, that was promised never to happen?
Because people appealing a IB decision could get reduced rate IS, surely with disability premium. As claiming IS is not allowed for ESA as far as I know, and the disability premium is dropped, thats yet another lie from the powers that be.

Not to mention IB went up for long term IB, but does not as far as I know go up for long term ESA, so again, yet another lie...

See my post above about your lies.

cit_k

NASA wrote: »

The only person guilty of lieing here is your good self.

The person who gave the interview said that no-one who moved over to ESA after passing the medical would lose out financially. That remains the case as they will be transitionally protected.

If, however, the claimant fails the medical they will not be protected as they havent met the conditions of the benefit. Like anyone who fails a medical they will get paid the assessment phase rate.

Its no different than if someone had failed the PCA and had to claim Income Support on appeal. That is apart from the fact that Income Support was reduced by 20% of the applicable amount but ESA is not.

Someone who failed the PCA could conceivably have gone from well over £100 to roughly £50.

Show me where they actually stated 'passed the medical'....

Are you also saying, if I go onto ESA from long term IB, they will pay the same money to me that I used to get on IB? Including the long term component? That the money wont drop one single penny?

NASA_2

cit_k wrote: »

Show me where they actually stated 'passed the medical'....

Are you also saying, if I go onto ESA from long term IB, they will pay the same money to me that I used to get on IB? Including the long term component? That the money wont drop one single penny?

Show me where they said that those who arent entitled to ESA after the WCA would qualify for transitional protection. Your interpretation of what was said is perverse.

As for your second question:

IB
45612 Where the existing award is IB, the weekly rate payable when calculating Amount A
is1
1. the normal rate payable under specified legislation including age-related
additions2
2. IBLT for widows and widowers3
3. transitional award of IBLT (former SB recipients)4
4. transitional award of IBLT (former IVB recipients)5
5. any CDIs and ADIs6.
See DMG Chapter 56 for guidance on IB amount payable, and DMG Chapter 55 for
guidance on transitional IB.
1 ESA (TP, HB & CTB)(EA)(No. 2) Regs, reg 10(5)(a); 2 SS CB Act 92, s 30B(2), (6) or (7);
3 s 40(5) or 41(4); 4 SS (IB)(Trans) Regs, reg 11(4); 5 reg 17(1) & 17A; 6 SS CB Act 92, s 80, 81 & 86A
45613 The amounts in DMG 45612 1. - 4. are calculated excluding any deduction1 which is
1. a relevant deduction2 (see DMG 45565) and
2. any other deduction relating to the existing award which is made under
specified legislation3.
1 ESA (TP, HB & CTB)(EA)(No. 2) Regs, reg 10(6); 2 reg 2(1);
3 SS CB Act 92; SS A Act 92; SS (IfW) Act 94; WR Act 07, Sch 3
45614 This means that normally the gross amount of IB payable before deductions are
made is used to calculate Amount A for the purposes of the TA. DMs should note
that where an age addition is reduced or extinguished1 as in DMG 56108, the
amount of the age addition taken into account for the purposes of Amount A is the
amount after the reduction2. See DMG 45618 for guidance on where payability of
CDIs and ADIs is reduced.
1 PS Act 93, s 46(3); 2 ESA (TP, HB & CTB)(EA)(No. 2) Regs, reg 10(7)

Cpt.Scarlet

cit_k wrote: »

Show me where they actually stated 'passed the medical'....

Your posts are usually well reasoned if somewhat biased.

It's very simple, if you fail the medical then you are not entitled to ESA. There is no payment to be made up to the IB level! It's exactly the same if you were to fail the PCA, your benefit stops, you get nothing, unless of course you appeal.

UnderPressure

Cpt.Scarlet wrote: »

Your posts are usually well reasoned if somewhat biased.

It's very simple, if you fail the medical then you are not entitled to ESA. There is no payment to be made up to the IB level! It's exactly the same if you were to fail the PCA, your benefit stops, you get nothing, unless of course you appeal.

So by the same reasoning, would it not be reasonable for an individual who has passed a yearly medical for IB for the last 7 years to have no problem passing this new ESA WCA? There are quite damning stats mentioned in another thread (I will add the link in a mo) that suggest only 20% of claimants having a WCA were placed in either support group or work group meaning 80% for whatever reason were either found fit for work or their claim ceased before the medical. I dont think these stats mean to much at the moment though as they are not directly related to only people being moved from IB, I presume the majority would have been fresh claimants.

EDIT

Link to stats:

http://statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/esa_wca/esa_wca_27072010.pdf

NASA_2

UnderPressure wrote: »

So by the same reasoning, would it not be reasonable for an individual who has passed a yearly medical for IB for the last 7 years to have no problem passing this new ESA WCA?

Of course it is not reasonable to assume that given that they are different tests.

Cpt.Scarlet

UnderPressure wrote: »

So by the same reasoning, would it not be reasonable for an individual who has passed a yearly medical for IB for the last 7 years to have no problem passing this new ESA WCA? There are quite damning stats mentioned in another thread (I will add the link in a mo) that suggest only 20% of claimants having a WCA were placed in either support group or work group meaning 80% for whatever reason were either found fit for work or their claim ceased before the medical. I dont think these stats mean to much at the moment though as they are not directly related to only people being moved from IB, I presume the majority would have been fresh claimants.

I think the figures from the Transfer Trial were 71% passed and 29% failed, however, you cannot assume you will pass just because you passed the PCA, the physical tests have many differences from the PCA ones, and the mental tests bear no resenblance.

If you want to pass you need to undestand the WCA tests, not what is written on the ESA50, and look at how your disabilities map to each one.

UnderPressure

NASA wrote: »

Of course it is not reasonable to assume that given that they are different tests.

Why not? How can it be reasonable of the government to say ok on Moday you passed the IB medical and here is your benefit ans you are not capable of work, then on Wednesday say sorry you failed the "new" medical and regardless of what has happened in the past now you are miraculously fit to work!

Tell me does that sound correct to you? Does it even sound fair? The government are aiming to get 1 million people off IB are they saying they have been dishing out benefits to people who are in fact fit for work and the whole system failed? Or is it more a case of ATOS advising the government on the face of it incorrectly in order to gain more commercial success? Something stinks that is for sure!

Cpt.Scarlet

UnderPressure wrote: »

Why not? How can it be reasonable of the government to say ok on Moday you passed the IB medical and here is your benefit ans you are not capable of work, then on Wednesday say sorry you failed the "new" medical and regardless of what has happened in the past now you are miraculously fit to work!!

They've changed the goalposts, infact it's not even the same playing field, either you understand that and adapt, or you don't, and you run the risk of losing your benefit.

So far every challenge to the change has failed or been dropped and for those hanging on for Harrington to change things, it ain't going to happen, next stop DLA.

anguk

UnderPressure wrote: »

I was having this same conversation with a relative of my wife's only last night, glad to see it is not just us that are confused..............

His situation is he has been claiming Incapacity Benefit now for around 7 years, in this time his health has steadily got worst, he is in Wales and is expecting to be moved over to ESA at some stage this year. Now he claims for himself but also gets an extra £53 a week for his partner who does not work mainly due to having a young child and also being an insulin dependant diabetic however she is hoping to get back to work over the next couple of years mainly as soon as the youngster is old enough for full time school.

We searched and searched the internet last night and could not find any answers, he is concerned after reading and hearing so many horror stories about people failing the medical, that he to will fail and we are trying to figure out if this does happen where it will leave them.

He has only very recently starting claiming extra money for his partner before this he used to receive £108.50 per week for his own IB, with the extra for his partner after tax he gets £159 per week so if he gets put on the assesment rate presuming he fails the medical how much will he get? Surely not just £67.50 a week? That is a £90 a week drop could this be right? Are they just expected to get on with it effectively being £360 per 4 weeks down? Seems a bit harsh but as said we cannot locate any information to say this is right or not

Any input appreciated I myself fear the worst but it would be great if I could go back to them with some better news.

Thanks in advance

We're in a similar position, my OH has been on IB for about 16 years (it was invalidity benefit then changed to incapacity), he also gets money for both me and our daughter. We were given the option a few years ago to change over to CTC for our daughter but we stayed as we were because it seemed pointless to have the money taken off OH's money just to get it from elsewhere. They did say that at some point in the future the money for our daughter would be migrated over to CTC but it hasn't happened yet.

I've been unable to find out what will happen to the money OH gets for me & our daughter? I'm guessing my daughter's money would stop and we'd have to claim CTC?

It's all very confusing and to be honest I'm hoping they don't transfer my OH to ESA until next summer as my daughter will have finished her A levels and benefits for her would stop anyway.

I'm not even sure what will happen with my OH? As I understand it he will be exempt from the medical because he has a condition on the "limited capability for work" list, but I could be wrong?