transfering from ib to esa

sunnyone

sunnyone wrote: »

They have removed the backstop for failing IB medicals which was reduced rate IS while appealing, with the ESA changeover because we are entitled to transitional protection we will not get lower benefit payments than we get on the day we are transfered to ESA and so that will stay the same while appealing a failed medical.

The link is on this part of the board somewhere.

woodbine wrote: »

you maybe confusing transitional relief

I remembered the name in post nine john.

UnderPressure

I was having this same conversation with a relative of my wife's only last night, glad to see it is not just us that are confused..............

His situation is he has been claiming Incapacity Benefit now for around 7 years, in this time his health has steadily got worst, he is in Wales and is expecting to be moved over to ESA at some stage this year. Now he claims for himself but also gets an extra £53 a week for his partner who does not work mainly due to having a young child and also being an insulin dependant diabetic however she is hoping to get back to work over the next couple of years mainly as soon as the youngster is old enough for full time school.

We searched and searched the internet last night and could not find any answers, he is concerned after reading and hearing so many horror stories about people failing the medical, that he to will fail and we are trying to figure out if this does happen where it will leave them.

He has only very recently starting claiming extra money for his partner before this he used to receive £108.50 per week for his own IB, with the extra for his partner after tax he gets £159 per week so if he gets put on the assesment rate presuming he fails the medical how much will he get? Surely not just £67.50 a week? That is a £90 a week drop could this be right? Are they just expected to get on with it effectively being £360 per 4 weeks down? Seems a bit harsh but as said we cannot locate any information to say this is right or not

Any input appreciated I myself fear the worst but it would be great if I could go back to them with some better news.

Thanks in advance

Cpt.Scarlet

Why does everybody think that losing your claim under ESA is any different from losing it under IB! If you fail to meet the requirements of the benefit, you lose the right to receive the money.

If you are found fit for work, you have three choices; get a job, sign on to JSA or appeal. the last two are paid at the same rate £67.50/w.

If you are on a low income, you may be eligible for an Income Related benefit which will make your income up to a higher level.

cit_k

Cpt.Scarlet wrote: »

Why does everybody think that losing your claim under ESA is any different from losing it under IB! If you fail to meet the requirements of the benefit, you lose the right to receive the money.

If you are found fit for work, you have three choices; get a job, sign on to JSA or appeal. the last two are paid at the same rate £67.50/w.

If you are on a low income, you may be eligible for an Income Related benefit which will make your income up to a higher level.

Because IB had one of the toughest PCA tests in the world already, and people have proven for years under law they are not fit enough to hold down employment.

Along comes Mr Freud who is an ex-investment banker, who of the top of his head, lies blatently about made up fraud levels, and invents a new test that is designed to fail 1 million people already proven to be unfit for work.

UnderPressure

cit_k wrote: »

Because IB had one of the toughest PCA tests in the world already, and people have proven for years under law they are not fit enough to hold down employment.

Along comes Mr Freud who is an ex-investment banker, who of the top of his head, lies blatently about made up fraud levels, and invents a new test that is designed to fail 1 million people already proven to be unfit for work.

As usual Cit_k you have hit the nail on the head!

I don't think for 1 moment the condem coalition have thought this whole thing through I really don't think they have a clue what this means for an awful lot of innocent people who have proven for years under the old IB test they are not capable of work for whatever reason. The amount of unneccessary stress and worry this is already causing people should be criminal really and not to mention the complete waste of tax payers money to make the change to begin with! Why are they bothering honestly? Would it not have been better to sort all of this in one go when the so called "universal credit" comes in? I still believe that will be pie in the sky time will tell.

The other big point that occurred to me recently is the MASSIVE increase this is going to have on un-employment and JSA figures I always thought a governemt was judged in many ways but one of them being the impact their term has had on unemployment figures, camertoff and friends seem to be wanting to break the record for the number of people sat un-employed claiming JSA! Yet another nail in their coffin so I suppose not all is lost yet anyway!

Where is the common sense taking 1 million people off 1 benefit to only put them on another??

It all seems like madness to me, the relation I asked about has every year for the last 7 or 8 gone along to an IB medical with all his medication and always passed with no problems, TBH it is obvious to anyone he is incapable of work as I am sure it is with many many IB claimants yet looking at other posts on here and other places a lot of claimants seem to have been "conditioned" to expect that they will fail the medical, when in actual fact if they are long term claimants that have been claiming for a number of years and had medicals every year surely they should be the people that should feel the most secure?? Or are ATOS going to tell us next their medicals over the years have not been fit for purpose? Worst still is the government going to admit they have been at fault for many many years and not bothered to rectify the situation?

I really do not get any of it at all! Poor health can have a HUGE impact on a persons life this nonsense surely is making these people's lives a lot more difficult and stressful. I really dont see for 1 minute how any of this can even be legal surely it must contravene some EU law? SURELY!

Anyway rant over!

If anyone can offer any advise about my earlier post it would be appreciated

Thanks in advance.........

cit_k

UnderPressure wrote: »

I was having this same conversation with a relative of my wife's only last night, glad to see it is not just us that are confused..............

His situation is he has been claiming Incapacity Benefit now for around 7 years, in this time his health has steadily got worst, he is in Wales and is expecting to be moved over to ESA at some stage this year. Now he claims for himself but also gets an extra £53 a week for his partner who does not work mainly due to having a young child and also being an insulin dependant diabetic however she is hoping to get back to work over the next couple of years mainly as soon as the youngster is old enough for full time school.

We searched and searched the internet last night and could not find any answers, he is concerned after reading and hearing so many horror stories about people failing the medical, that he to will fail and we are trying to figure out if this does happen where it will leave them.

He has only very recently starting claiming extra money for his partner before this he used to receive £108.50 per week for his own IB, with the extra for his partner after tax he gets £159 per week so if he gets put on the assesment rate presuming he fails the medical how much will he get? Surely not just £67.50 a week? That is a £90 a week drop could this be right? Are they just expected to get on with it effectively being £360 per 4 weeks down? Seems a bit harsh but as said we cannot locate any information to say this is right or not

Any input appreciated I myself fear the worst but it would be great if I could go back to them with some better news.

Thanks in advance

He should still be able to claim on behalf of his partner whilst claiming for ESA, or whilst on assessment rate awaiting appeal.

However, the amounts are less than IB, with IB (rough figures here) for one person + partner claimed for on behalf of them they would be on something around 300 pounds a fortnight, with ESA it would be something around 200 pounds a fortnight, not sure of EXACT figures though.

Perhaps give the DWP a ring and ask them what the rates would be to find out?

Its bad, as it was put in writing, on the net by politicians that NO ONE would get less money on ESA due to moving from IB.

Its more lies though, there is a drop.

cit_k

UnderPressure wrote: »

I don't think for 1 moment the condem coalition have thought this whole thing through

No, they have not, because they just took over labours work, and claimed it as their own work. So evil, they actually want to LIE and claim evil work as their own.

UnderPressure wrote: »

I really don't think they have a clue what this means for an awful lot of innocent people who have proven for years under the old IB test they are not capable of work for whatever reason. The amount of unneccessary stress and worry this is already causing people should be criminal really and not to mention the complete waste of tax payers money to make the change to begin with! Why are they bothering honestly? Would it not have been better to sort all of this in one go when the so called "universal credit" comes in? I still believe that will be pie in the sky time will tell.

They dont really care as far as I can tell, best option for the government is it does cause lots of stress and people kill themselves, what a saving they would make, no benefits and no pension to pay out.

UnderPressure wrote: »

The other big point that occurred to me recently is the MASSIVE increase this is going to have on un-employment and JSA figures I always thought a governemt was judged in many ways but one of them being the impact their term has had on unemployment figures, camertoff and friends seem to be wanting to break the record for the number of people sat un-employed claiming JSA! Yet another nail in their coffin so I suppose not all is lost yet anyway!

Part of the reason ESA was introduced, ironically was to increase unemployment figures, hard to explain, read this, it explains it all. (and more)

UnderPressure wrote: »

It all seems like madness to me, the relation I asked about has every year for the last 7 or 8 gone along to an IB medical with all his medication and always passed with no problems, TBH it is obvious to anyone he is incapable of work as I am sure it is with many many IB claimants yet looking at other posts on here and other places a lot of claimants seem to have been "conditioned" to expect that they will fail the medical, when in actual fact if they are long term claimants that have been claiming for a number of years and had medicals every year surely they should be the people that should feel the most secure?? Or are ATOS going to tell us next their medicals over the years have not been fit for purpose? Worst still is the government going to admit they have been at fault for many many years and not bothered to rectify the situation?

They get out of the problem by just saying its a new test, new rules, passing old test has no bearing on passing new test.
Simply moved the goalposts thats all.

UnderPressure wrote: »

I really do not get any of it at all! Poor health can have a HUGE impact on a persons life this nonsense surely is making these people's lives a lot more difficult and stressful. I really dont see for 1 minute how any of this can even be legal surely it must contravene some EU law? SURELY!

It probably does, its certainly a move designed to cause maximum distress to as many people as possible.
But who has the strenght, skill and money to do anything about it?
The charities are not bothering, probably because they want to bid on slave labour resulting from the sick people kicked off sickness benefits onto JSA then onto workfare.

Nice earner for them, so thats I believe why the are doing as little as possible to protect their clientel.

NASA_2

richard9991 wrote: »

if you are claiming dla at middle or high care and fail the esa medical then you will get the same money if you get dis prem/severe dis prem/enhanced dis prem while appealing you will also get them if you opt to claim jsa ib the following link explains which premiums are paid and with which benefits

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/technical-guidance/rr2-a-guide-to-housing-benefit/working-it-out/applicable-amounts/#aa22

Disability premium doesnt exist on ESA so the amount would be roughly £28 less on ESA(IR) than it would have been on IS.

cit_k

NASA wrote: »

Disability premium doesnt exist on ESA so the amount would be roughly £28 less on ESA(IR) than it would have been on IS.

Another way to lose money, that was promised never to happen?
Because people appealing a IB decision could get reduced rate IS, surely with disability premium. As claiming IS is not allowed for ESA as far as I know, and the disability premium is dropped, thats yet another lie from the powers that be.

Not to mention IB went up for long term IB, but does not as far as I know go up for long term ESA, so again, yet another lie...

NASA_2

cit_k wrote: »

Its bad, as it was put in writing, on the net by politicians that NO ONE would get less money on ESA due to moving from IB.

Its more lies though, there is a drop.

The only person guilty of lieing here is your good self.

The person who gave the interview said that no-one who moved over to ESA after passing the medical would lose out financially. That remains the case as they will be transitionally protected.

If, however, the claimant fails the medical they will not be protected as they havent met the conditions of the benefit. Like anyone who fails a medical they will get paid the assessment phase rate.

Its no different than if someone had failed the PCA and had to claim Income Support on appeal. That is apart from the fact that Income Support was reduced by 20% of the applicable amount but ESA is not.

Someone who failed the PCA could conceivably have gone from well over £100 to roughly £50.