ICS Learning issue

charmed-imsure

Was paid via PayPal, but as I have said, the course states no previous programming experience required

Outpost

IC yes you can!

charmed-imsure

Outpost wrote: »

IC yes you can!

Dont know what you mean

PZH

charmed-imsure wrote: »

Here is an example that they give you in lesson 1, and at no time does it state what the characters do, so you do need a level of computer programming to understand what they are talking about

It odes break it down, but again no explanation of what the characters do

charmed-imsure wrote: »

But my point is, you need to know what they mean to even start the course, so you do need a certain level of programming knowledge. I can search on the internet to find out, but I should not have to

To be fair to you, this is not basic programming and so I do agree with you that some knowledge would probably be needed. (But this statement is obviously without seeing the entire lesson 1 so may be made out of context as it were - further lessons might be a lot more basic and Lesson 1 is simply an "Introduction" of what to expect ?)

Looking at the course (if it is the right one - which is still to be confirmed) it does state at the begining:-

Key topics
C++ Programming for Game Developers (1)

Learn the basics of the C++ programming language.

I would expect a whole lot easier examples to be presented first to ease you in to the C++ Language.

PZH

charmed-imsure wrote: »

Was paid via PayPal, but as I have said, the course states no previous programming experience required

How long ago did you pay via PayPal ? Could you open a dispute ?

Having said that, ICS may then pursue you to get payment for their service, which you would need to defend as "Not as Described"

charmed-imsure

The problem is to find out if further lessons give explanations, you would need to download even more from the course, which would appear as if you have downloaded the complete course, then simply want your money back.The examples just get more and more in depth as the first lesson goes on. This is not really a beginners course in my eyes, so basically is not as described.
Just waiting to hear back from ICS now, but will not let it drop.
I think I m right in saying that a dispute cannot be opened in PayPal for electronically downloaded items.

charmed-imsure

The course you have mentioned is the right one, which is Video Game Design & Development

PZH

charmed-imsure wrote: »

The course you have mentioned is the right one, which is Video Game Design & Development

Which in that case I agree - from the example you have given it is clearly not a beginners course and you certainly need some grasp of programming.

Stick to your guns and (politely) ask ICS for a refund for Goods not as described.

With regards to Paypal - I didn't realise that (but I suppose it makes sense)

charmed-imsure

Here are some of the emails that have gone back and forth, brick wall comes to mind:

Good morning Anthony

Student registration number: 20841070

Thank you for your recent email.

I have now heard back from Gatlin who have informed me of the following:

‘Anthony has accessed CPP1 and AI1, he also downloaded the following files

AI1 Lesson Plan.pdf
AI1 - Textbook Chapter 1.pdf
AI1 - Lecture Lesson 01.zip
Course Common Libraries.zip
Lab Project 1.1 - Pathfinding.zip
Visual C++ 2003 Runtimes.zip

Thus, we cannot issue a refund’

If you have any further queries please contact us.

Kind regards

Sorry Anthony,

I am still waiting for Gatin to get back to me. I want to make sure we can do everything for you that you have asked however, as we sell the course through them, it all needs to go through them first.

I will be back in touch as soon as I get any information for you.

I am so sorry about the delay.

Kind regards,


Hi

I thought I would have heard something back by now, however, lets cut to the chase here. Here is the pre-requsite for the course as described by you:

You should have a reasonable familiarity with computers and at least a pass at GCSE level mathematics (or equivalent). No previous programming experience is required.

Now this is not the case, and you do need some degree of programming knowledge, which is evident from lesson 1. Now if we go by your pre-requisite, of course you will open the link, only to find out that if you have no previous knowledge, then you are going to struggle.
Now this is goods not as described, and unfortunately, the terms of Gatlin where they state if the link is opened, then no refund can be given, is now not applicable.
If you are adament that you are continually going to have to wait for a response from Gatlin (even though my contract is with you), then I will need the email address, phone number plus postal address of the CEO of the company.
Now I have been patient, I have only asked for the course to be transferred to the following:
CIW Designer
Web Design
plus the outstanding amount as a refund, I have not at present requested a full refund, or as yet instructed a solicitor to act on my behalf, however my patience is starting to wear thin.
Now the web design course, I know that I can do that, as I have done a bit of web design already. To transfer the course is quite simple, you just action it, send it to me, then you can sort out your side with Gatlin.
Please dont fob me off with the "need to speak to Gatlin thing", it is really trying my patience.
Now if you you have no programming experience, let me send you lesson 1, and tell me how you get on

Sorry I am still waiting to hear back from Gatlin. I will be in touch soon as I get any information from them.

Thanks

Hi

Did you not read the full email???????????

GOODS NOT AS DESCRIBED

MY CONTRACT WITH YOU

PATIENCE ABOUT TO DISAPPEAR

SORT THIS OUT NOW OR GIVE ME YOUR CEO DETAILS

Regards

Very Unhappy Customer

Yes, I did read your email however my hands a tied at the moment until I hear back from Gatlin. Please bear in mind it is an American company so there may be a slight delay in response.

As soon as I hear back from them I can let you know.

Kind regards,

You purchase the course via the ICS website, however the website makes it very clear that the course is supported via Gatlin. I have no authorisation to transfer you to the other course. I am doing everything I can for you at the moment and will be in touch as soon as I hear from Gatlin.

Regards

Hi

Fine your website states that is it SUPPPORTED by Gatlin, not that the contract is with Gatlin. A contract can be verbal or written, whoever receives the payment from the Payee, in this case ICS, forms the contract, which means the contract is between myself and ICS, even though the course is supported by Gatlin. So where you are saying your hands are tied is not strictly true. also there is no viable reason why you have to wait for Gatlin. I was always lead to believe that the customer comes first, I feel in this case, I am purely being fobbed off, and not treated in the way a customer should be. Now if you are insistent on coming back with constant negative replies, then I suggest you get your manager to call me and if they cannot sort this, then I will simply go up the chain, and if it is still not sorted, legal action will follow, trading standards will be contacted, and also the body that governs your field will also be informed. I do know my rights as a consumer, and you are preventing me from exercising my rights.

Hi

Why are your hands tied, basics, I purchased a product from YOU, YOU, then purchased the product from Gatlin. Your description of the course is misleading and you cannot realise this until you start the first lesson. Now, simple I want my contract with YOU transferring TODAY, to the 2 courses I have mentioned. It is then your issue to sort out your side with Gatlin. If you cannot do this, then I suggest you pass this on to someone who can, other wise, I will be instructing a solicitor to claim back a full refund, plus costs plus damages for goods not as described.

Let me give you an example of your terms and conditions, it states in section 3, subject to 3.4, which does not even exist, so really your terms and conditions are shambles. Now word of advice, I think it would be a good idea, to change the pre-requisites of the course, to prevent this from happening in the future.

Regards

Here is a good example, I buy and pay for a phone from the carphone warehouse, they then in turn buy it from say HTC, if the phone does not turn up, I wont go to HTC, I will go to carphone warehouse, as that is who I have paid, and that is who my contract is with, I really dont understand what you are not grasping here.

Now nothing, sorry its a bit long, but this is really trying my patience.

charmed-imsure

This has now apparently been passed onto a sales Manager, but when I asked for the contact details of them, no response, now there is a surprise. Also contacted Gatlin in the States, no answer