Tyres - What is the Truth?

mikey72

vikingaero wrote: »

The other thing is that the UK is a wet damp temperate climate. I want wet weather grip over dry grip. I want deep tread at the front to resist aquaplaning. Driving in the snow? Do you want your worn tyres at the front or 8mm of new deep tread at the front? Dry weather handling is pretty irrelevant on new UK tyres - there's very little percentage points between a premium and cheap tyre. In the wet the grip differential between a premium and cheap tyre can be huge.

I got into a fair old arguement when I suggested two winter tyres on the front (which indeed I did trial), was better than none.
The arguement was on exactly the same lines, if I did I would be off the road due to oversteer every time I went anywhere.
It was suggested four summer tyres would be much safer, then no tyre would grip well, and a four wheel slide would be safer.
Needles to say no probems, it started, it steered, it stopped, and the front dragged the back along wherever it went.

flyingscotno1

I never got the best tyres to the rear debate either. That said I wouldn't think it makes much difference what you do.

mikey72 wrote: »

I got into a fair old arguement when I suggested two winter tyres on the front (which indeed I did trial), was better than none.
The arguement was on exactly the same lines, if I did I would be off the road due to oversteer every time I went anywhere.
It was suggested four summer tyres would be much safer, then no tyre would grip well, and a four wheel slide would be safer.
Needles to say no probems, it started, it steered, it stopped, and the front dragged the back along wherever it went.

I didn't greatly like my experiences on that however. It was OK, but the problem I had was oversteer on roundabouts where you turned, front gripped and back didn't and lock-ups under braking. I'd prefer 4 of the same type to be honest.

mikey72

flyingscotno1 wrote: »

I never got the best tyres to the rear debate either. That said I wouldn't think it makes much difference what you do.



I didn't greatly like my experiences on that however. It was OK, but the problem I had was oversteer on roundabouts where you turned, front gripped and back didn't and lock-ups under braking. I'd prefer 4 of the same type to be honest.

So you prefer 4 summer tyres on snow?
Did you take off the 2 winter tyres and put the summer ones back on?

vikingaero

mikey72 wrote: »

I got into a fair old arguement when I suggested two winter tyres on the front (which indeed I did trial), was better than none.
The arguement was on exactly the same lines, if I did I would be off the road due to oversteer every time I went anywhere.
It was suggested four summer tyres would be much safer, then no tyre would grip well, and a four wheel slide would be safer.
Needles to say no probems, it started, it steered, it stopped, and the front dragged the back along wherever it went.

I lived in Glasgow for a while and loads of drivers and taxi drivers in Southern Scotland put two winter tyres on the front. The critical situation in snow is 1) Traction to get off the line 2) Directional stability and 3) Braking grip.

Sure in the North of Scotland 4 winter tyres are a must. What's interesting is to see what works on the streets where people are affected and what someone in the safety of a Southern warehouse spouts off.

bigjl

The winter tyres on the front only (FWD car) is an interesting one.

I come down firmly on the side of better grip on the driven wheels is better than no grip.

Interestingly when you fit snow socks they advice putting them on the front only of a FWD vehicle.

Not sure about RWD cars, but on the Ambulances they said to put them on the outside rear wheels only.

The winter tyres are not to allow dry weather speeds, but purely to obtain traction when there is very little grip.


Any experienced driver is going to expect the oversteer if only fittig winters on the front, so I can't see the issue.

Much better than no winter tyres as mikey says.

And as already mentioned the same as putting snow socks on the front purely to gain extra traction.

This advice was given by the makes of the snow socks when they supplied the LAS, and yes they bought the after the snow started to cause issues.

I personally never had any problems, I though the snow was a great crack.

flyingscotno1

mikey72 wrote: »

So you prefer 4 summer tyres on snow?
Did you take off the 2 winter tyres and put the summer ones back on?

Hmm, no 4 summers on snow isn't ideal and I wouldn't do that. I'd prefer 2 M+S marked and 2 summer to that but I can understand why it isn't recommended over 4. I did have a few moments, mostly on tight roundabouts and sharp braking however I understood them and corrected it.

I ran through the rest of winter and still have the 2 Nokians on the front and summer Contis on the rear. It was OK but going for 4 Nokians for this winter as the Contis 3 years old and are wearing down anyway.

I just feel 4 winter/all-season/Cold weather.M+S marked tyres gives the car a better balance and control over mixed types. That isn't to say the 2 front winters aren't better than 4 summer tyres, there is a case to be made that the 2 winters might help you get going, stop quicker and turn quicker- I know that from last year it's just a poorer driver could well get caught out with oversteer which is harder to control than understeer.

vikingaero wrote: »

I lived in Glasgow for a while and loads of drivers and taxi drivers in Southern Scotland put two winter tyres on the front. The critical situation in snow is 1) Traction to get off the line 2) Directional stability and 3) Braking grip.

Sure in the North of Scotland 4 winter tyres are a must. What's interesting is to see what works on the streets where people are affected and what someone in the safety of a Southern warehouse spouts off.

Taxis in Glasgow that do run winters run them all year from what I see too. Passed a taxi with Continental winter contact on last week.

adouglasmhor

pitkin2020 wrote: »

Thats all good and well but you only need a kid ONE DAY to run out in front of your car when its raining and using your cheapie tyres, are you going to stop in time??

I did just, on Gislaved speed C ( midish range) I was less than a foot from him when I stopped and the little shït took off and ran across the other lane in the dark and rain. I was lucky TBH but not as lucky as him, I am sweating remembering it.

mikey72

vikingaero wrote: »

I lived in Glasgow for a while and loads of drivers and taxi drivers in Southern Scotland put two winter tyres on the front. The critical situation in snow is 1) Traction to get off the line 2) Directional stability and 3) Braking grip.

Sure in the North of Scotland 4 winter tyres are a must. What's interesting is to see what works on the streets where people are affected and what someone in the safety of a Southern warehouse spouts off.

I think that's the answer there.
A lot of the advocates of "4 summer tyres so all the whees slide together" are in safe warm houses when it's snowing.
I'd rather have traction, steering and brakes myself, and just avoid the slide in the first place.
My old rwd cars I used to put the M+S on the back, again, getting halfway up a hill, then sliding back into the car behind was never good.
So long as you didn't brake on the way down most corners were fine.

So I'm definately in the "best tyres on the driven wheels" camp.

bigjl

That is nothing flyingscot.

Nearly half the London Amblance Service front line fleet is still running on thw winter tyres from last winter as the fitters are either too bone idle to swap them back again or are pretending they are putting them on early for the coming winter.

A surprising number of drivers that use second hand tyres in East London also mix not just cheapies with premiums on the same axle but also mix winter tyres and summer tyres on the same axle.

Sometimes peoples ignorance reaches new heights, some of these are owner driver Private Hire and I havealso seen a Ford Galaxy with no Extra load tyres on it on more than one occasion.

And we think the biggest issue is putting new tyres on the back.instead of the front. There are so many people with no understanding of the basics.

Woody._2

bigjl wrote: »

But I have ten years Front Line Ambulance experience in the busiest area of the busiest ambulance service in Europe, and I have not seen a single accident such as they suggest is caused by putting new tyres on the front.

And you know the cause of every collision in your area do you?

How long have the Met been supplying the LAS with their recon reports?