Hardwater area

dazzles

I live in a hard water area.....what is the cheapest /cost effective/best way of improvement.....water softener or a descaler? Do these descalers work,
any experiences you would like to share and help me decide?

lisyloo

What do you mean by descaler?
Do you mean the chemical stuff you put in the kettle?

These 2 things are entirely different.

A water softener will be fitted where you water enters the house.
It will chemically change the water so this will affect ALL you water (except a seperate small pipe for drinking water).
This means that your pipes, boiler and all appliances are affected.
It also means you won't get scale on your taps, shower door and shower head.
I recently had one fitted and it was £1500 so they are no cheap.
You can get it cheaper than this but may be an inferior model e.g. mine is non-electric and has dual-cylinders.

Descaler is entirely different (if I understand you correctly).
This is a chemical that you put in your iron or kettle every now and again to remove the scale.
It costs a few quid for a sachet but will ONLY fix the appliances you use it on.
It will do nothing for your pipes.
It will not change your water so you will still get shower heads clogged and the same problems with taps and sinks.

The water softener is the best way to deal with the problem.

Every one I know that has one raves about them BUT they are not cheap.

A lot of people manage quite well on descaler but long term it can cause problems with pipes etc.

Volcano

If you are referring to the electrical/magnetic devices, they are a well known scam.

lisyloo

Just to be clear by "water softener" I was referring to a device (unit) which uses salt to chemically change the compososition of the water.
There is no doubt that this water is chemically different.

From what I have heard from plumbers these are the only devices that work.

I have also heard from friends and colleagues anecdotally that they can help some skin conditions.

The only downside is that they aren't cheap.

moonrakerz

We have had a softener for over 20 years. As you say, they aren't cheap to buy; £300-400, plus cost of salt - £3-£4 a month.
BUT - they are worth every penny. You use a lot less soap powder, soap, shampoo, washing up liquid etc, and a tub of Flash lasts for a million years.
They say that you shouldn't drink softened water because of the extra sodium in it, but I read recently that the amount of sodium in softened water is actually one third the legal limit of sodium in fresh milk ! So that appears to be a bit of a scare story.
I wouldn't be without one now.

Lord_Gardener

moonrakerz wrote:

We have had a softener for over 20 years. As you say, they aren't cheap to buy; £300-400, plus cost of salt - £3-£4 a month.
BUT - they are worth every penny. You use a lot less soap powder, soap, shampoo, washing up liquid etc, and a tub of Flash lasts for a million years.
They say that you shouldn't drink softened water because of the extra sodium in it, but I read recently that the amount of sodium in softened water is actually one third the legal limit of sodium in fresh milk ! So that appears to be a bit of a scare story.
I wouldn't be without one now.

We're the same, wouldn't be without our softener for above reasons and easier cleaning with no hard water scale! We have an isolated drinking water tap!

ysabell

Automatic Demand Water Softener. I fitted ours about 10 years ago in a cupboard. Wouldn't be without it now. You need to leave one tap in the house that is ordinary mains water (ours is the kitchen sink cold tap). We use a water filter jug with the ordinary tap water.
Bathroom looks as good now as when I installed it at the same time as the WS.

Avoriaz

Ignore and avoid descalers and any device that claims to magically magnetise the water by wrapping an electric coil around the pipe. This is scientific rubbish and they do not work.

Hard water contains high levels of dissolved magnesium, calcium and other metal ions which are harmless to humans (in moderation) but can fur up pipes and boilers etc and mark your sanitary ware.

Get a proper salt based water softener. You should be able to get a decent model for circa £500 plus maybe £100 for installation if you can’t diy it. I don’t understand the £1,500 quoted by Lisyloo above. Is it gold plated or diamond studded? I recommend a dual chamber non electric system. We have had a Kinetico model for over 20 years and it is excellent though there are other makes that are just as good.

The softener uses salt (NaCl or sodium chloride) to replace the calcium and magnesium ions with sodium ions that do not fur up pipes etc.

Unless you are sodium intolerant, which is rare, (edit - see post below about baby milk. In very hard water areas you should not use softened water to make baby milk.) you can quite safely drink and cook with the softened water but ideally you should install a small drinking tap at the kitchen sink that bypasses the softener. Unless you want to spend a fortune on Brita type cartridge filters, you could and should install an inline filter system on this to purify your drinking and cooking water. A decent filter (dual cartridge systems are best) will remove most of the chlorine, bacteria and other contaminants present in mains water. You can get these for well under £100 and they are quite easy to diy install. Your kettle will still fur up as the filter does not soften the water but all this requires is an occasional descale with a proprietary descaler or white spirit vinegar.

You need to buy salt for the softener and replace the filters on the drinking water occasionally but the cost of these is outweighed by the savings you will make. You will use far less detergent in your washing machine and dishwasher. Soap and shampoo etc will last for ever and your showers and baths will be luxurious. You will no longer need to clean your bathroom sink three times a day. Your bath will no longer have a tide mark. Your shower hose will not fur up. Your boiler and central heating system will last longer and be more reliable. With an inline water filter, your tea and coffee will look and taste far better and the water will taste so good that you can stop buying Perrier and Highland Spring at 1000 times the cost per litre as tap water.

Buy a water softener and a drinking water filter. You know it makes sense.:p

Canucklehead

HI

Just a couple of things

1 Do not fill your heating with softened water..see here.http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/index.php?fuseaction=faqs.detail&con_id=127261

2 Softened water should not be used to prepare baby milk.

3 This won't apply to most people but, if you have any lead pipe in your house AFTER the water softener then it will leach lead into your system.

As with most things read the water softener installation instructions and do not modify them.

Corgi Guy.

dazzles

Thanks everyone for your comments, especialy Avoriaz. I must confess I was sceptical about the electric descalers which you attach to your pipes, so it looks like a water softener for me

Avoriaz

Canucklehead wrote:

….. Do not fill your heating with softened water..see here.http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/index.php?fuseaction=faqs.detail&con_id=127261...

I have not heard of that warning before. We have used softened water in our central heating system for 20 years with no problems. I have never seen this warning on any leaflets and brochures about water softeners. I googled “soft water” and “central heating” and looked at a few results. None mentioned this warning or suggested there might be a problem.

Here is the google list.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?as_q=soft+water&hl=en&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=central+heating&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images

Surely the Fernox or similar anti corrosion additive that should be added to CH systems will neutralise any extra acidity in softened water.

Thanks for the warning about baby milk. Being childless by choice I was unaware of that risk. I have edited my post above.;)