Hardwater area

Avoriaz

lisyloo wrote:

….. I think my view of money saving is different to other people's sometimes.

Problem - I want to save money on a Rolls Royce
Lisyloo - Import it or pay in dollars as it's low against the pound.
Avoriaz - Buy a Ford!

As long as everyone gets what they want from this site then that's great in my view.
But moneysaving is not about being thrifty for everyone. For me it's saving money WITHOUT compromising on the features or qualities that I want.

Lisyloo, you misunderstand and misrepresent me and I think your comments are rude and patronising. Just like you I don’t compromise on the features or qualities that I want. I do however shop around carefully and sensibly.

20 years ago I did much as you did today. I bought a brand new professionally installed and warranted Kinetico Compact dual cylinder softener from a reputable local firm. The model I bought is essentially the same as yours and it has served us very well for twenty years. The difference is that I bought it for a reasonable and competitive price. I think you paid grossly over the odds for yours. I am certain that today I could get a brand new Kinetico with outside tap, drinking water tap and filter, long pipe runs etc and still have plenty of change from £1,000. In my opinion you have overspent by at least £500.

I would edit your comment as follows:

Problem - I want to save money on a Rolls Royce
Lisyloo - Import it or pay in dollars as it's low against the pound.
Avoriaz - Buy a Rolls Royce for Ford prices.

I posted the details about ebay bargains for the benefit of those members who are on a budget and don’t have £1,500 to spend on something worth less than £1,000 or who are prepared to tackle an easy diy plumbing job and save themselves a lot of money.

djohn2002uk

Avoriaz wrote:

Lisyloo, you misunderstand and misrepresent me and I think your comments are rude and patronising.

Don't agree with that.
But I would say that you appear to delight in rubbing it in about her being overcharged.

Avoriaz

djohn2002uk wrote:

Don't agree with that.
But I would say that you appear to delight in rubbing it in about her being overcharged.

We will have to agree to disagree about that.

To me her last post was saying “I buy quality and you are a cheapskate” when in reality we have both bought much the same thing. I was comparing like with like, not new versus second hand as she wrote.

Anyway, I posted on here in response to Dazzles request and not to engage in petty squabbles with anyone else so I will leave it at that.;)

lisyloo

To me her last post was saying “I buy quality and you are a cheapskate”

I never said this. Those are entirely your words.
What I said is that buying new and secondhand are not the same thing.
One has higher risks and more hassle.
I did not say either approach was infrerior.
It depends on how much time and money you have.
As I have said I am not any good at DIY and don't have a masonry drill.
There is no way that I would try to drill through my house without the right skills or tools.

The model I bought is essentially the same as yours and it has served us very well for twenty years.

So you agree it's a good choice of model or at least brand then.

The difference is that I bought it for a reasonable and competitive price. I think you paid grossly over the odds for yours.

Please provide some evidence of this.
I have provided details of the model and an example of the prices charged with web links (which was not far off mine but without any extras).
If you think it's the wrong model the please provide some reasons (perhaps I have a mis-selling case),
Bear in mind that I need something "compact" otherwise I have to rebuild the units in my utility.
If you can provide cheaper prices in the South of England then I will agree with you, but from my brief search so far the price I found (and posted) looked quite similar.

But I would say that you appear to delight in rubbing it in about her being overcharged.

If that's the case then please help me pin point what I paid too much for.
At the very least it will help me (and others) get educated for next time.
At worst I maybe have a mis-selling case.

so I will leave it at that

Please help me and educate others by proving your point.

I was comparing like with like, not new versus second hand as she wrote.

Have you kept yourself up to date with current prices of softeners and labour as you bought yours 20 years ago.
Just a thought.

or who are prepared to tackle an easy diy plumbing job and save themselves a lot of money.

Don't want to keep repeating myself but drilling through masonry is NOT an easy DIY job.
I appreciate the advice you are trying to offer to others, but as I've already said in my case I would be better off working for the day and then paying someone else because I can earn more. Surely you can see that it is moneysaving if you pay someone else X but earn X+Y during the same timescale.

Avoriaz

OK, let me deal with your post point by point to avoid confusion

lisyloo wrote:

I never said this. Those are entirely your words.
What I said is that buying new and secondhand are not the same thing….

I did interpret your comment that “Avoriaz buys a Ford” as rude, especially when that is exactly what I don’t do. (I actually bought a nearly new BMW for Ford prices).

I think you need to re read what I have already posted above as you appear to think that I was comparing your choice with a second hand diy installation. Here is what I wrote.

“You should be able to buy a brand new Kinetico or similar softener for circa £600 - £700 by shopping around and far less for a used model.”

lisyloo wrote:

..So you agree it's a good choice of model or at least brand then…

Again you need to re read my earlier posts. I absolutely agree that the Kinetico is an excellent choice and probably the best choice for you. I never disagreed with you and I never criticised your choice of brand or model. I bought much the same thing myself 20 years ago. That is why I wrote above:

“The Kinetico compact model that you bought is an updated version of the model I have used for 20 years. It is as good as anything on the market and better than most so at least you know you have a good softener”

That was a clear and unequivocal endorsement of your choice and I don’t understand why you appear to believe that I think you should have bought something else.

lisyloo wrote:

….As I have said I am not any good at DIY and don't have a masonry drill…There is no way that I would try to drill through my house without the right skills or tools…

Most people would not tackle a water softener installation themselves. I wrote above

“£200 is probably reasonable for an installation with long pipe runs and exterior work so I don’t think you have been overcharged there.”

Nowhere did I write that you should have done it yourself.

lisyloo wrote:

……Please provide some evidence of this. (PRICE)….Bear in mind that I need something "compact" otherwise I have to rebuild the units in my utility….If you can provide cheaper prices in the South of England then I will agree with you, but from my brief search so far the price I found (and posted) looked quite similar….
If that's the case then please help me pin point what I paid too much for.
At the very least it will help me (and others) get educated for next time.
At worst I maybe have a mis-selling case….Have you kept yourself up to date with current prices of softeners and labour as you bought yours 20 years ago….Just a thought..

Yes, I have kept up to date with prices. Softeners don’t last for ever and 20 years is about the maximum life for the resin. A few months ago I made enquiries from the same company who supplied our Kinetico about the costs for replacing the resin and supplying a new model. They quoted circa £200 for a resin replacement and circa £750 for a new Kinetico Compact softener, the identical model that you have bought. This was for supply only. It included VAT but did not include delivery or installation. I am sure that with a bit of gentle bargaining they would have lowered those prices somewhat. I also researched other alternatives and found a local company manufacturing their own softener that is very similar to the Kinetico. They quoted about £630.

I doubt if you have a case for mis selling but I do think that you could have got the same thing at a lower cost.

My intentions in posting in this thread were to try and help Dazzles, not to offend or upset you or anyone else and I am sorry if that is the case. Perhaps you took umbrage at my remark about gold plated or diamond studded. However I commented according to my own experience and philosophy which is to buy high quality goods at the lowest possible price by carefully researching the market, shopping around and firm but fair bargaining and negotiating on price etc.

In other words I buy a Rolls Royce (OK, BMW actually) at Ford prices.;)

lisyloo

I did interpret your comment that “Avoriaz buys a Ford” as rude, especially when that is exactly what I don’t do.

Sorry I think we have spent a lot of time mis-understanding each other.
I think I finally understand what you are saying now.

I think you are right we have paid more than we could have done, there are 2 main reasons for this
1) The priority was to get it done. For various reasons it has been put off for nearly 4 years and we really didn't want to put it off any longer (new house so build up in new pipes is hopefully limited).
2) We wanted a good local company as we knew our installation would be quite difficult as hard water is required a long way from the unit.
My hot tub takes 1000 litres so I can't carry it round in a bucket !! (BTW - it was a slight second for a discount).

The company charged us a small amount for the extra work they did.
I have no doubt that if we had screwed down a better deal then they would not have been able to cross-subsidise the extra work that we needed.
We might have been able to get a slightly better deal but perhaps not as much as you are thinking because I'm positive we wouldn't have got as much goodwill on the extra work if they weren't making as much profit on the main deal. Because we needed some help and wanted it done before Xmas and wanted a good local company perhaps we were a bit soft in not negotiating as hard as we could (but that wasn't our priority at the time).

Perhaps you took umbrage at my remark about gold plated or diamond studded.

Yes, perhaps that wasn't the best way to "win friends and influence people".
Our only crime was to pay the advertised price and not screw them down, but as I have expained we were somewhat on the back foot with a difficult install.

I will avoid the use of metaphors as well as the car one didn't come across as intended.

Have a nice Xmas and new year.