Hardwater area

skim

I've not used home softeners but have used industrial softeners for years & they work in a similar way.

The salt does not soften the water. Within the cannisters is a chemical called Zeolite which softens the water by removing the calcium, magnesium etc.
The salt is used to regenerate the zeolite by backflushing salt through the zeolite to remove the hardness so that it's as good as new again.
That is why you'll have 2 cannisters, one will take over whilst the other is regenerating.

The pH of the water will be much more acidic, typically in the 4.5 to 5.0 region whereas normal water is neutral at 7.0.

lisyloo

I don’t understand the £1,500 quoted by Lisyloo above. Is it gold plated or diamond studded?

Don't think so
I have this one.
Seems to be a fairly standard price in my area.

http://www.kinetico.co.uk/blocksoft.htm
http://www.kinetico.co.uk/select.htm

I will see if I can find a price for it.

lisyloo

Price on here for £1200 but I don't think that includes any of the extras (like seperate drinking water tap and pipe).
My house is a large 5 bed and the drinking water was a LONG way from the water softener (had to go outside the house at the utility, along the length of it and back in at the kitchen) so we paid a little extra, but I think that price is fairly standard for that unit.

The company did a LONG days work (from 8 til 5) to install it and didn't charge much so I'm sure the unit price is pumped up to subsidise their labour.

http://www.freshwaterfilter.com/products/product.php?product_id=9

I'm sure there are cheaper units out there but are they as good (for large homes)?
Usually you get what you pay for.
I couldn't fit a larger unit in unfortunately (without spending hundreds re-arranging units) so we think this unit was a good choice.
Talking to my neighbours this seems to be a fairly standard price for this size of home i.e. there no point putting in a unit fit for a 3 bed semi into a house that is 3 times as big.

moonrakerz

lisyloo wrote:

there no point putting in a unit fit for a 3 bed semi into a house that is 3 times as big.

Strictly speaking there is no relationship between the physical size of the softener and the size of the household it is feeding. If you have a smaller softener, all that means is that you will have to have it regenerate more frequently.
You then have to work out whether to spend hundreds of pounds on a bigger softener or a couple of quid a month on extra salt.

lisyloo

I couldn't fit anything bigger into my utility room (without ripping out and replcing units which would obviously cost money).

Is this unit unsuitable?
If I have been ripped off and sold an unsuitable unit I would like to know.
Some people seem to be of the opinion that I've paid too much but it seems to be a fairly standard price on the web.

So I would quite like to know what it wrong with it.

Avoriaz

Hi Lisyloo, I apologise if I have caused you to worry but I does appear that you may have paid a high price. It really depends on how much of the total cost covered installation and how much covered the cost of the unit itself.

You should be able to buy a brand new Kinetico or similar softener for circa £600 - £700 by shopping around and far less for a used model. If you have paid £700 or £800 for installation that sounds very high even if there are long and awkward pipe runs.

The Kinetico compact model that you bought is an updated version of the model I have used for 20 years. It is as good as anything on the market and better than most so at least you know you have a good softener. The size of your household does not really matter. All that happens is that the more water you use the more salt the softener uses. I add 25 kgs of tablet salt to mine every few months. Your model uses block salt which is easier to handle than a 25kg bag of tablets but is slightly more expensive to buy. Because the blocks are only about 2.5kgs, you will need to add blocks quite frequently, especially if you use a lot of water, but that is hardly an onerous task. I nearly break my back lugging 25kg bags of salt from the garage.

To anyone else reading this who wants a softener, try ebay. There is a nearly new Kinetico where bidding has reached £250 and a second hand model at £95 so far. Sorry again Lisyloo, that probably just makes you feel worse.

moonrakerz

lisyloo wrote:

Is this unit unsuitable?
if I have been ripped off and sold an unsuitable unit I would like to know.

You haven't been ripped off or sold an unsuitable unit Lisyloo; I would say that perhaps you bought a Rolls Royce when a Ford would have done.
But there - Rolls last longer than Fords !

lisyloo

If you have paid £700 or £800 for installation that sounds very high even if there are long and awkward pipe runs.

No nothing like this.
Around £200 (although I haven't got the price list with me).
Both me and my husband work and we don't have a masonry drill so it was worth paying someone else rather than go DIY.
I can earn more than a tradesperson so it just makes sense for me to work and pay someone else to do it.

Sorry again Lisyloo, that probably just makes you feel worse.

No not all all.
I now understand the difference.

I was referring to a new unit with warranty and a professional installation.
You are referring to something second hand unwarrantied and possibly a DIY install.

The two are entirely differnt things.
The second is the cheapest but not without hassle or risk.
I am an Ebay fan but it's not without it's problems.

Different solutions will be right for different people.

Avoriaz

£200 is probably reasonable for an installation with long pipe runs and exterior work so I don’t think you have been overcharged there.

£1,500 in total is still a lot of money but if you got a drinking water tap or anything else then it does explain some of the apparently high price.

Yes, ebay does have its risks and DIY plumbing is not for everyone. I mentioned it for the benefit of keen DIYers who might want a bargain water softener. Most people will probably want a new professionally installed system with a warranty.

Even at the price you paid I think it is worth it for the benefits and luxury of soft water.;)

lisyloo

£1,500 in total is still a lot of money but if you got a drinking water tap or anything else then it does explain some of the apparently high price.

We have a drinking water tap and an outside tap for hard water.
I have heard different anecdotes about what softener water does for plants but you definitely can't put it in a hot tub (unfortunately).

The unit is a "rolls royce" version so you can get cheaper ones, but we had a limitation on size and friends advised us to get a dual cylinder model.
of course cheaper ones are available but there might be various drawbacks.
I guess it depends on your budget.

Even at the price you paid I think it is worth it for the benefits and luxury of soft water.

That's what everyone told us, so that's why we did it :-)



BTW - I think my view of money saving is different to other people's sometimes.

Problem - I want to save money on a Rolls Royce
Lisyloo - Import it or pay in dollars as it's low against the pound.
Avoriaz - Buy a Ford!

As long as everyone gets what they want from this site then that's great in my view.
But moneysaving is not about being thrifty for everyone. For me it's saving money WITHOUT compromising on the features or qualities that I want.