MSE News: Government launches back to work programme

Fleago

cit_k wrote: »

Realistically, what provider is going to spend the extra time and considerable effort to try and place the basically unemployable (long term sick, who still have considerable health problems) into work, for just a little extra, when they can get people without health problems who are easier to place?

You're right, they won't want to help the "basically unemployable" as you term it. But what they will do is target those who are on/recently ex ESA/IB who feel that they are at the stage where they can be thinking about a return to work and who, with the right support, have a realistic chance of getting back to work.

I know that there are a lot of people on these benefits for whom work is currently not an option, or indeed, may never be. But there are also those who are becoming ready to get back to work but who will need support to do so.

For the latter group of claimants, the providers will be paid much more than a little extra if they succeed in supporting them into sustained employment.

scooby088

Realistically there aren't going to be enough work based opportunities for all those who are unemployed, so where do they go to if they can't get on one of these placements? Are the unemployed when on placement allowed leave to attend interviews? get paid transport allowances like bus passes? How Many hours are they supposed to work for their benefit i would imagine that there will be loads of people sanctioned for one reason or another.

I for one look forward to the scheme and the benefit it can bring to me and the extra work experience if i get on a placement but i don't hold onto much hope there will a job at the end of any placement.

redglass_2

dseventy wrote: »

I class you as "in the same boat", the "you need a job" boat, why is anymore distinction needed?

D70

Er, because it's people you're talking about, not cogs in a machine? That'd be the kind of thinking that gets old and mentally ill people abused and treated like rubbish. They're not working, are they? Not earning, not working, economically not productive and therefore not worthy of being cared for.

I've been waiting for someone to suggest that our 'long hours culture' both turns work into slavery and reduces the jobs available to those looking for them, but not a glimmer. Instead some people are busy dreaming up ingenious schemes to supervise job claimants for 4 hours a day. It would be pretty useless since you can't go on searching when you've already searched everywhere but that's not the point, is it? The point is that it would be PUNITIVE, like the 'occupations' given people in workhouses. Punish 'em. Punish.

Paulgonnabedebtfree

dseventy wrote: »

Just make all unemployed people do 4 hours a day supervised job seeking.

Every day (except weekends), they have to turn up, on time, job search (with resources like PCs and helpers), apply for jobs, 4 hours minumum.

D70

Yes, they could all become jobseeker supervisors.
Until they reach that heady goal, they could get work cleaning the sh*t out of cuckoo clocks.

WhiteHorse

With its crude, simplistic propaganda, the government would have us believe that the unemployed (and that includes the sick and disabled), are all useless social security spongers who can be forced into employment.

Lurking behind this propaganda is the insidious idea that 'they' are stopping you from being rich. If it wasn't for 'them', you would have more.

Us and them. This is the politics of hate.

Yes, there are plenty of spongers and layabouts. Yes, there are some jobs out there. But it's not that simple. What about those areas where there are no jobs? And there are genuine disabled people, sick and unemployed people, who would dearly love to return to employment, but simply can't, for reasons that are beyond their control.

What will happen? The usual - unscrupulous politicians and their ambitious, amoral hangers-on in government will hit what they see as soft targets. And that means the genuine people. There won't be any campaign directed against hardcore scroungers.

LittleVoice

cit_k wrote: »

So you want the unemployed to supervise the unemployed. Because the unemployed required supervision? So who will supervise the unemployed who are supervising the unemployed?

But the point is - the supervisors are no longer unemployed, they have succeeded in finding paid employment. Or did you think this was part of the Big Society volunteerism??!

cit_k

LittleVoice wrote: »

But the point is - the supervisors are no longer unemployed, they have succeeded in finding paid employment. Or did you think this was part of the Big Society volunteerism??!

Who is going to pay for these jobs? People say all these benefit cuts/plans/programmes are because there is not enough money to pay the benefit bill.

So how are they going to afford to pay full wages, instead of just benefits to all these people, if they cant even afford to pay just benefits?

And where would they do the supervising?
And where would they get the equipment from?
And the security guards?
And the insurance?
And the other related costs?

Then what happens when this miracle scheme succeeds in its objective and gets the majority of the unemployed into work?

All those supervisors will no longer be needed, so will become unemployed...

cit_k

Fleago wrote: »

You're right, they won't want to help the "basically unemployable" as you term it. But what they will do is target those who are on/recently ex ESA/IB who feel that they are at the stage where they can be thinking about a return to work and who, with the right support, have a realistic chance of getting back to work.

I know that there are a lot of people on these benefits for whom work is currently not an option, or indeed, may never be. But there are also those who are becoming ready to get back to work but who will need support to do so.

For the latter group of claimants, the providers will be paid much more than a little extra if they succeed in supporting them into sustained employment.

In other words, the extra money is being paid to help people who would already be out looking for a job themselves, who are now ready to jobsearch, whose health has improved, and who dont really need the likes of a4e hindering their prospects?

Whilst the people who need the help the most, the people whose health has not recovered who were booted of IB thanks to ESA, onto JSA, will be parked as usually has happened on previous schemes.

All of which have been dismal expensive failures...

Fleago

Yep, I think you've hit a particular nail on the head, cit_k, and I have a very strong suspicion that there will be a good deal of "cherry picking" going on in the new programme.

thor

This scheme won't work due to the fact that there are far more on the dole than jobs available. It will line the CONservative's friend's pockets no doubt.
If they were really serious about getting more people into work then maybe they could bring in legislation to stop people having multiple jobs and could start with the politicians who can find time to get on the board of multinationals while supposedly working full time as MPs.