Student Loan 2015 Discussion

Oldernotwiser

mrs_deadline wrote: »

The total is not just the other half of the story: it will be hanging round their necks for ten times as long as their degree courses, by my reckoning that is 90 % of the story!

Students must think very carefully about the financial goals they might have for the next 30 years before taking on this uncompetitive debt. Or in your terms, opting in to a 50% marginal tax rate.

More than once on these boards I've tried to persuade young people not to take on (supposedly affordable) 30-year mortgages, because at 18 most have no concept of the cost of living combined with the drudgery of monthly repayments, the impact of which is nearly always underestimated until it's too late to back out.

This scheme is no different from reckless lending on mortgages, with even less consumer protection in place, and ultimately unsustainable, because potential high earners, if they have any sense, will look at the totals and want nothing to do with it.

This is absolutely ridiculous!

Student loans are nothing like mortgages and there's no reason for them to hang over graduates in any way. It's been explained to you that looking at the repayments as a tax is the way forward but you aren't prepared to even consider this viewpoint.

We seem to have acquired a group of affluent parents on this board who are hell bent on discouraging other people's children from going to university. Call me a cynic, but this smacks of financial elitism and a desire to minimise the competition their own (graduate) children will have for suitable jobs.

melancholly

mumps wrote: »

The reality is that many people are deciding not to go to university next year because the debt frightens them. I know three people at work who had been positive about their children going to uni next year. Two of them are sure they have convinced their children it isn't worth the debt. The third is resigned to his daughter going but not happy about it but she is determined. I am not saying they are right but that is a definite feeling out there. These young people would all have been the first in their family to go to university and certainly two wanted to go but now it looks like only one will. It will be interesting to see what happens to numbers next year.

that's desperately sad and an awful legacy for this government........

melancholly

mrs_deadline wrote: »

This scheme is no different from reckless lending on mortgages, with even less consumer protection in place, and ultimately unsustainable, because potential high earners, if they have any sense, will look at the totals and want nothing to do with it.

so who should go to university? only people whose parents will pay the fees and living expenses in full?!

apart from the fact that i completely disagree with your view on the repayment, which granted, some people will see differently, discouraging students from going to uni is just plain irresponsible. posts/opinions like yours damage university access more than any government policy alone every could. that is desperately frustrating as i think access for all is vital.

many potential high earners (doctors, dentists, engineers as a few examples where a degree is vital) could not get to that salary without a degree. maybe we should only have people in those professions who have parents with a spare £60 - £100K (given that these are 4-6 year courses on the whole).

JimmyTheWig

I don't know if this has been dealt with already, but I feel the following

14. The new system is unlikely to impact the ability to get a mortgage

is realistically incorrect. The last sentance in that section

the amount of mortgage available may depend on net income.

is much more helpful.

If you can't get a mortgage big enough for the property that you want to but then you're no better off than if you couldn't get a mortgage in the first place.
If you can't get a mortgage big enough for any property then in reality you can't get a mortgage.

Given that many will still be paying 30 years after graduation this will have a significant impact on people's ability to get a (relevant) mortgage.

Oldernotwiser

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

I don't know if this has been dealt with already, but I feel the following

is realistically incorrect. The last sentance in that section

is much more helpful.

If you can't get a mortgage big enough for the property that you want to but then you're no better off than if you couldn't get a mortgage in the first place.
If you can't get a mortgage big enough for any property then in reality you can't get a mortgage.

Given that many will still be paying 30 years after graduation this will have a significant impact on people's ability to get a (relevant) mortgage.

There's a big difference between owing £40k on credit cards or personal loans compared with owing the same amount to the SLC.

The fact that someone on £30k pa will be making repayments of about £70 pcm will have only a small effect on the amount of mortgage available (perhaps £3,000 less than they could borrow without these payments) which wouldn't be the same with any other kind of debt.

mrs_deadline

melancholly wrote: »

so who should go to university? only people whose parents will pay the fees and living expenses in full?!

Anyone should go to university who can get a place, but I don't uncritically accept that this generation of students should be fully liable for their tuition costs. Other countries see fit to pay for the training of their doctors, teachers, engineers out of general taxation, presumably because they realise that their skills and talents are needed by us all.

And how can one person's opinions on a forum cause the damage you seem to infer? Students of university calibre are capable of weighing up the issues and drawing their own conclusions.

Oldernotwiser

mrs_deadline wrote: »

Anyone should go to university who can get a place, but I don't uncritically accept that this generation of students should be fully liable for their tuition costs. Other countries see fit to pay for the training of their doctors, teachers, engineers out of general taxation, presumably because they realise that their skills and talents are needed by us all.

And how can one person's opinions on a forum cause the damage you seem to infer? Students of university calibre are capable of weighing up the issues and drawing their own conclusions.

You obviously haven't met many university students recently!

mrs_deadline

Touche Oldernotwiser, it's far too late for my hellbent purposes once they've made it to uni ;-)

wintersunshine

mumps wrote: »

The reality is that many people are deciding not to go to university next year because the debt frightens them. I know three people at work who had been positive about their children going to uni next year. Two of them are sure they have convinced their children it isn't worth the debt. The third is resigned to his daughter going but not happy about it but she is determined. I am not saying they are right but that is a definite feeling out there. These young people would all have been the first in their family to go to university and certainly two wanted to go but now it looks like only one will. It will be interesting to see what happens to numbers next year.

And for the one's who decided not to go it might be the best financial decision they ever made!!!!! cos for all the "just close you're eyes and do it" from ML et al, it sure as hell ain't free and students will be paying for it for 30 years! and that's money they could have spent on a house or something.

wintersunshine

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

We seem to have acquired a group of affluent parents on this board who are hell bent on discouraging other people's children from going to university. Call me a cynic, but this smacks of financial elitism and a desire to minimise the competition their own (graduate) children will have for suitable jobs.

Call me a cynic but you seem hell bent on getting other people's kids up to the eye balls in debt?

Not going to Uni could be a brilliant financial decision and a great start in someone's life... could be the best decsion they ever make! Not paying back a heap of money for 30 years of your life - FAB!