Student Loan 2015 Discussion

wintersunshine

mrs_deadline wrote: »

And how can one person's opinions on a forum cause the damage you seem to infer?

Especially as hardly anyone reads this board

atypical

mrs_deadline wrote: »

I don't uncritically accept that this generation of students should be fully liable for their tuition costs. Other countries see fit to pay for the training of their doctors, teachers, engineers out of general taxation, presumably because they realise that their skills and talents are needed by us all.

Herein lies, I think, the greatest argument against the tuition fee rise. Before this reform Britain's spending on tertiary education as a percentage of GDP was 3rd lowest in the OECD after the likes of Chile and Korea. I wouldn't be surprised if we're last in the OECD when the new figures are released. Some of the Nordic countries and Canada chose to spend nearly 3x as much.

It must tell us something unpleasant that we've chosen to spend so little on tertiary education compared to the counties we can best compare ourselves with.

I'd encourage anyone to read the OECD Secretary-General's editorial at the beginning of this report. Amongst other things, she says that on average across the OECD taxpayers receive a return of 3x the public investment in higher education through taxation. And that's ignoring all the other benefits an educated individual brings that can't be reflected in tax income figures.

gfplux

Great guide.
However we now also need to focus on value for money. What do different University's offer for all this money. How many hours of lectures, tutorials etc.
Most unis are very vague about this at the moment.

MrsAverage

Dear MWE
1.
Please update the 'last updated' date at the begining of the guide. it still reads 14th June yet in the guide you mention the 28th June gov paper so it must have been updated since.
I had been watching avidly for your take on this paper and nearly missed it

2. Please mention in the guide that gov have put repayment options out for 'consultation' and are asking everyone to comment and please put a link to the BIS consulation site - although I have read the consulation several times and still struggle to understand it, or to find out how to put my repsonse forward.

MrsAverage

Not everyone on here is either rich or poor - the vast majority of us are somewhere in the middle. (My username says it all!)

As a concerned and supportive parent I am trying to ensure that my son does not sign up for something he later regrets and the discussions on the board seem to have lost sight of the fact loans will be linked to RPI and I, for one, don't think this is good or secure. I remember the 70s and rates in double figures – very frightening.

Yes, monthly repayments may be relatively low, but if the majority never pay it all off - as the Gov. keep telling us they won't - then who will plug the gap in missing monies? Gov are paying it out upfront and have little hope pf getting it, and interest, back in this scheme. Haven't they learned from pensions? Or will this whole next generation of graduates find the rules get changed on them in 10, 20 or 30 years time - just when we, the parents, will be needing them to fund our care home bills!!

At all 3 unis we visited last week, accommodation fees alone were higher than the promised 'living expenses loans' at the higher end of scale so not only will students from average families with 2 working parents have to borrow full fees (9K+ 3-4K living) but they will have to work to live while their classmates from a lower income family will have to borrow a reduced rate tuition (6k) plus they can borrow 7K living costs so they will end up borrowing and repaying the same but will have been able to study without working in a paid job too. Is this fair?

I'm still sceptical of whole scheme, still need more guarantees and am finding it contradictory.

What does the rest of the ‘middle majority think?

melancholly

all i can say is that every time they've changed the system, it has never been applied retrospectively. it has only impacted on the new intake, never on those who had already started in it.

fwiw, when visiting unis, also look at private student houses - halls are usually very expensive but you can live a lot cheaper. there are always lots of options and the halls that you were shown on an open day will be the nicest ones, which will also be the most expensive option!

the system will never be fair to all...... no system ever is. i think the middle will be squeezed more than most in this system (particularly when you look at repayments made by the bulk of people in the middle in terms of graduate earning).

the decision is, will this loan allow him to do a degree that could change his life and open up options? that's what it boils down to. fair or otherwise, it is what it is......

Oldernotwiser

gfplux wrote: »

Great guide.
However we now also need to focus on value for money. What do different University's offer for all this money. How many hours of lectures, tutorials etc.
Most unis are very vague about this at the moment.

University study isn't about the number of teaching hours; university isn't about teaching, it's about learning.

Oldernotwiser

wintersunshine wrote: »

Call me a cynic but you seem hell bent on getting other people's kids up to the eye balls in debt?

Not going to Uni could be a brilliant financial decision and a great start in someone's life... could be the best decsion they ever make! Not paying back a heap of money for 30 years of your life - FAB!

I agree that too many people go to university but, unfortunately, there are very few opportunities available to students leaving after A levels.

The only people who will be repaying a "heap of money" will be high earners and most of those wouldn't be in this position without a degree.

(NB. Unlike many people on here, I've actually had a student loan.)

DaveO

I can't believe this of all web sites is putting such a positive spin on a regressive system.

The table of who pays what shows middle income graduates pay the most not the highest paid so instead of "myth busting" this site should be actively campaigning against the system.

An example of spin is the point made about only paying back the same amount each month if the
loan is £6k or £9k. This is completely irrelevant as the majority of Universites are charging £9k or
close too it. So there is no good news here as everyone will be in the same boat.

Also the idea early repayment should be allowed will mean those who can afford to do so pay even
less overall. This means those middle income graduates who can't subsidise the education of the rich students who can afford to pay it off early.

However the biggest indictment of Martin doing this is the sheer uncertainty of what can happen to these loans in the future such as them being sold off. How can he possibly recommend anyone simgns up for such an open ended agreement and one where the interest rate could go through the roof if inflation is high.

It also fails to mention the subsistence loan will not even cover the cost of accommodation let alone all other costs. At Duram the hall fees are greater than the loan .for example.

And of course this is before we even consider arguments already aired about how we fund University education compared to other countries.

mrs_deadline

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

(NB. Unlike many people on here, I've actually had a student loan.)

If you don't mind me asking, are you or have you been in the situation of having to pay it back? Can understand if you prefer not to say.