Student Loan 2015 Discussion

2sides2everystory

So what it takes is 2 teenagers and a pro bono legal team to actually grab this government by the short and curlies ? Nice move - they could actually pull this off and serve this shallow government right if they do.

MrsAverage

atypical wrote: »

Appears the fee rise is going to judicial review on the basis that discrimination laws weren't considered:

Found some more specifics :

I don't see how current plans are discriminatory. Anyone offered a place will get the loans - there is no selection/rejection on race or ability to pay. Indeed current plans seems to discriminate against those who can pay more, or who may have an opportunity to pay off early -perhaps as the result of a lottery win (always hopeful!)

While I think the system is fundamentally flawed and would like to see it challenged and revoked/reworked this seems a bit of a red herring and will do nothing to help us who are needing to know details so we can plan and choose where to study now. We start going to Uni open days this week .

This case will do nothing other than add to delays and uncertainty.

If the case is won – what will Govt. do? Can they still revert to current system? I though funding was already changed in regards as to what the Unis actually received this year, not next year when the fees change.

atypical

There must be some merits to their argument otherwise I assume the judge would have rejected the request. It does seem a bit unusual though in that there is a whole section on fair access in the white paper. How much more "due regard" do you need?

Unison tried to take the NHS reform proposals to judicial review. They argued that there hadn't been a proper consultation. And there was something about David Nicholson (NHS Chief Exec) writing in a letter to PCTs that they should start implementing the reform before the consultation had finished. Their request was rejected because consultation isn't a legal requirement.

setmefree2

David Willetts in secret talks with banks on funding of student loans

Government may encourage applicants to seek banks' help to pay for university places

Students will be encouraged to borrow from high-street banks to cover their tuition fees, under proposals considered by the government as a way out of the funding crisis facing higher education.
With more universities than expected charging the maximum of £9,000 a year for tuition, universities minister David Willetts is seeking a way to reduce the liabilities of the government-backed Student Loans Company by turning to the UK's major banks to provide loans at preferable rates.
Universities UK, which represents universities, has been consulted. Its president, Sir Steve Smith, who is vice-chancellor of Exeter University, said the proposal to allow banks to exploit the student market carried huge risks and could create a two-tier education system.
He said the Department for Business Innovation and Skills had proposed that students taking private loans would be counted outside the allotment of places each university is given by the government, making them attractive to colleges aiming to increase their cash flow.
Smith said the consequent risk of a two-tier higher education system had "nasty" implications. "They [the government] have talked to us about that, but the trouble is that it has the obvious objection that it looks awfully like those people buying their way in."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/jun/25/banks-university-funding-private-loans

2sides2everystory

Keep banks well away from the student sector. We have no idea who most of the "students" are who walk through the doors of the UK's bank branches. They come from anywhere and everywhere and like the banks themselves, exploit the student banking game for short term purposes. Pseudo students have exploited it mercilessly in every guise in which it has evolved in recent years from four figure interest free overdrafts for those who play the game well to a quick conversion to a normal bank account and an apparent banking record that will tempt the computer to lend like a Las Vegas slot machine with all the 7s on the reels.

The student banking fiasco in the UK is a main crutch nay, essential pre-cursor to illegal economic migration (in the guise of supporting anyone claiming to have arrived here recently as a student).

All manner of educational establishments run paper factories for these people once they have signed up for "tuition" ranging from fancy crested "university" or "college" stamped letterheads quoting all manner of BS about length of courses, and levels of those courses - all the while trying to second guess and match interpretation of both government and bank rules from time to time about what is a qualifying course.

Banks turn the tap on and off depending on local new business targets and how desperate the local staff are. They have their own shortlists of "approved colleges" but that doesn't limit their intake by much. Some branches of some big banks don't fancy local student business and send "students" round the houses perhaps to quieter branches of the same banks who aren't so picky.

Some banks have cosy arrangements with certain employer clients who habitually employ "just arrived" type labour or unpaid "students" on work placements (but "it is part of their study").

Talk to bank staff about the false documents including passports that they are supposed to be able to spot and even when they do, ask them what happens and who gets arrested?

The word gets out about who is the most adept at getting the most accounts open fastest with the fewest checks and these "students" seem to know that they can try again in the morning if they get rumbled.

Few banks employ student specialists worth the name any more, and those "student specialists" that do exist rely perhaps on such diverse attributes as their own tribal connections back home to decide which of the international "introducing agents" to do business with in bulk.

What's the difference between a UK student and an overseas student? Very little now. They are charged the same it seems. So in a bank branch, will there be a difference?

In many of those "developing countries" for example, the local economies run on cash only. Does that stop them doing business with UK banks? No of course not. Its still all part of the banking game and is just an opportunity to up the ante which is exactly what that sort of international student introducer expects. He collects the 100% of tuition fees and more back home from the student families and he is paid a commission in sterling by the UK colleges for all those he can shepherd on to a plane and get signed up in the UK. If he gets asked to deposit a minimum £100,000 or USD100,000 or EUR100,000 before he can open an account in UK to hold and disperse his commissions, then he won't bat an eyelid at the game ante. Moreover, and somehow, because it is "international", the banks own moneylaundering rules which you might think would mean they would be crawling all over such a proposition are probably a bit different to the ones which dog some poor legit international students when their parents or other relatives try to send them cash and it routinely gets stuck for days in the system "for moneylaundering checks".

And our government is in secret negotiations to graft on something else to that murky mess? Gawd help us all.

And what happens when half these new accounts get "cross sold" by hungry graduate bank staff for government sponsored personal loans at what are breathtakingly high rates or at any rate at all? A sizeable proportion with weird and wonderful credentials of those receiving sterling loans get gradually assimilated into the main customer base in less time than it takes to complete their "qualifying" course, then they will disappear with the cash and the rest of the customer base will pay for it.

I wonder does it really matter? Isn't this the essence of the new capitalism that has been denied/brushed under the carpet for decades? Create then follow all new rules, dispense with your conscience, then bend, break and shake those rules real good and then collect your winnings and go round again for another go another day?

It's all monopoly money at the end of the day, isn't it? Stinks a bit but if you wash your hands after handling it and converting it into highly portable electronic money, then who cares?

mrs_deadline

setmefree2 wrote: »

Quote:
David Willetts in secret talks with banks on funding of student loans

Government may encourage applicants to seek banks' help to pay for university places

Fly on the wall account of the secret meeting:

Agent Willets: How about lending large sums unsecured to students who may never earn enough to pay it all back in full.
Banks: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Agent W: Oh go on, it's your turn to bail us out now.
Banks: :rotfl: suckers!

Lokolo

mrs_deadline wrote: »

Fly on the wall account of the secret meeting:

Agent Willets: How about lending large sums unsecured to students who may never earn enough to pay it all back in full.
Banks: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Agent W: Oh go on, it's your turn to bail us out now.
Banks: :rotfl: suckers!

I suspect that aren't trying to get back all the money, just more than they do now.

Currently they loan £3k and government give £6k (or something around that) directly to university. So thats £6k lost.

However with the new system the government isn't losing that £6k all the time and instead is losing less (well I assume thats the idea anyway)

I suspect the idea is to reduce the number of students going, and to cut down on the university budget.

melancholly

Lokolo wrote: »

I suspect that aren't trying to get back all the money, just more than they do now.

Currently they loan £3k and government give £6k (or something around that) directly to university. So thats £6k lost.

However with the new system the government isn't losing that £6k all the time and instead is losing less (well I assume thats the idea anyway)

I suspect the idea is to reduce the number of students going, and to cut down on the university budget.

ah, but with all the unis charging more than the goverment expected (although exactly what everyone else said they would!), it will now be a loss making exercise!

in my head i will now be calling the willetts man Agent W. that really made me smile!

setmefree2

Martin or Dan - Your guide says the following

Of course you don't have to take the loan for tuition fees, you could opt to pay it directly.

I just noticed this on the LSE web site (my son is not thinking about going to LSE by the by - it just came up on a google search)

Look at this page

http://www2.lse.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/undergraduateFeeStatusAndFees.aspx

under the section on 2011 it says

Fees for 2011 entry

Home UK/EU fees

For 2011 entry, the tuition fee for new UK and European Union (EU) undergraduates will be £3,375 for the first year. The following years are subject to an inflationary rise.
Students from the UK and the EU have two options for paying this fee:

• Students can take out a student loan for fees which will be administered by the Student Loans Company, which they will repay once they have left university and are earning over £15,000 per year. In the case of students from England and Wales the Student Loans Company will pay the fee directly to LSE. This means that students who take out a fee loan do not have to pay the tuition fee up-front or whilst they are studying.
• Students can, if they prefer, pay the tuition fee up-front or throughout the course

Then

Fees for 2012 entry

Home UK/EU fees

In late 2010 the UK Government announced significant changes to tuition fees and funding arrangements for full-time UK/EU undergraduates. These changes will come into effect for the start of the 2012 academic year. Details can be found at www.bis.gov.uk/studentfinance. LSE has announced its intention to charge UK and EU undergraduates a tuition fee of £8,500 a year, subject to confirmation by OFFA. Please see New package of fees and financial support for further information. Further information will be available on this website in July.

Under the 2012 arrangements, UK/EU students will not be required to pay any tuition fees up front. Instead, the cost of tuition will be covered by a non-means tested government loan which students will only start to repay once they have left their programme and are earning over £21,000 per year.

No option to pay up front?

I'm confused???? Is it possible to pay Tuition Fees up-front or not???

nmtd

For those with a brain - encourage your children to study abroad and avoid the fees altogether.

I live about 4 miles from this state school, although my children go to another. I wish the head at their school was as enlightened as this one

Take the spaces out of below as a newbie I am clearly a subversive and not allowed to post information that other may find useful

www. hockerill. herts. sch. uk/pdf/independent%20article%20310111.pdf

www. hockerill. herts. sch. uk/pdf/studyabroad.pdf

At least inform your children about ALL the options and make the right decision for them in the long run.