Zebra Crossing - near-miss

bikeyspice

Gloomendoom wrote: »

I suspect that, as the supermarket crossings don't actually cross a public highway, the usual rules and penalties don't apply anyway.

I've also wondered if that's the case too. I sure won't be hurling myself across any of their crossings

EDIT: I seem to recall reading somewhere that the RTA regulations still apply if the public have 24/7 unimpeded access to the site. Don't quote me on that though!

zappahey

Flyboy152 wrote: »

I think some people need to understand the distinction between should and must.

Absolutely. When the Highway Code says you "should" do something, it is merely a good practice. When it uses the word "must" it refers to the legal requirement.

Gloomendoom

bikeyspice wrote: »

I've also wondered if that's the case too. I sure won't be hurling myself across any of their crossings

EDIT: I seem to recall reading somewhere that the RTA regulations still apply if the public have 24/7 unimpeded access to the site. Don't quote me on that though!

That is true. But, as you said, most signage and markings in those places does not meet legal requirements.

The NEC in Birmingham, for example, has speed limit signs in KPH not MPH which is a definite no no.

Lucy_Lastic

From the Highway Code:

Crossings

18

At all crossings. When using any type of crossing you should

• always check that the traffic has stopped before you start to cross or push a pram onto a crossing
• always cross between the studs or over the zebra markings. Do not cross at the side of the crossing or on the zig-zag lines, as it can be dangerous

You MUST NOT loiter on any type of crossing.
[Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 19 & RTRA sect 25(5)]
19

Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.

The woman concerned did not comply with the above. She was in the wrong.

Bongles

Trebor16 wrote: »

The Highway Code is very clear on how pedestrians should behave.

Indeed it is. And very sound advice it gives too. I would hope that any pedestrian would treat a zebra crossing in accordance with that advice. I would.

But the Highway Code is not the law and the fact remains that the moment a pedestrian steps onto the crossing, regardless of how little of the Highway Code's good advice they've followed, they have precedence and drivers have to give way.

Trebor16 wrote: »

Pedestrians therefore have a duty to make sure it is safe to use the crossing before they set foot on it.

Not in law they don't.

Trebor16 wrote: »

The content of the Highway Code can be used against both drivers and pedestrians should they not follow the advice given.

It can, but in the case of a pedestrian who has stepped onto the crossing, there is no ambiguity in law that could be cleared up with reference to the Highway Code (although, as this thread illustrates, there is plenty of ambiguity in the Highway Code that can be cleared up with reference to the law).

Gloomendoom

Lucy_Lastic wrote: »

The woman concerned did not comply with the above. She was in the wrong.

She loitered on the crossing? I must have missed that bit.

Trebor16

Section 38(7) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 states the following:-

A failure on the part of a person to observe any provision of the Highway Code shall not of itself render that person liable to criminal proceedings of any kind, but any such failure may in any proceedings (whether civil or criminal and including proceedings for an offence under the Traffic Acts, the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 or sections 18 to 23 of the Transport Act 1985) be relied upon by any party to the proceedings as tending to establish or negative any liability which is in question in those proceedings.

I think that clears up the issues of the importance of what the Highway Code says and how it is viewed in law.

Gloomendoom

Trebor16 wrote: »

Section 38(7) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 states the following:-

A failure on the part of a person to observe any provision of the Highway Code shall not of itself render that person liable to criminal proceedings of any kind, but any such failure may in any proceedings (whether civil or criminal and including proceedings for an offence under the Traffic Acts, the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 or sections 18 to 23 of the Transport Act 1985) be relied upon by any party to the proceedings as tending to establish or negative any liability which is in question in those proceedings.

I think that clears up the issues of the importance of what the Highway Code says and how it is viewed in law.

"Negative any liability"????

What kind of screwed up English is that? Shouldn't the word be "negate"?

Own up. You wrote that yourself. Didn't you?

Trebor16

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/38

See for yourself where I got it from, and then you will realise what a buffoon you are for making such comments about making it up.

johnfarquhar74

Can someone in the know post a link to the laws regarding zebra crossings?
From what I'm reading here, the general concensus is a pedestrian can step onto the road with no observation or indication, and as long as they do so at a correctly installed zebra crossing, then any or all liability from any resulting accident lands at the feet of the driver? And is this any different if the pedestrian steps on to the road from anywhere else on the pavement, not a recognised crossing?
Personally, and clearly I'm no legal eagle, I think duty of care is shared by all road users and if a pedestrian were daft enough to think approaching drivers had a 6th sense or Jedi mind control then they are only looking for trouble. That is not to say drivers shouldn't expect the pedestrian to cross, but that pedestrians should at the very least expect drivers not to stop rather than just step out, praying to their respective gods and know that if they are hit, at least they were 'right'!
Incidentally, I have a zebra crossing at the end of my street, I have to use it or cross it every day, so far I have no incidents to report with the exception of one. An elderly lady taking a swing at a passing transit van with her shopping as she felt he could have stopped. Perhaps he could have, perhaps he couldn't but I'm sure that was of no consolation to the lady as she was chasing her apples down the road after her bag split!