Benefitsandwork forum

cit_k

xXMessedUpXx wrote: »

I admit i joined B&W but that was because my esa and dla were both up for renewal and was paranoid and panicking. and trying oi find the same info for free via google was making me worse because all i kept finding was more scare stories and bad things soit was easier to see it all in one place. i do think they scaremonger though

Personally, I dont think they 'scaremonger' enough, even the forums are heavily moderated and political type discussions are not allowed etc.

If reporting what is going on is scary, then thats not the fault of the reporter - its the fault of the people for allowing the government to get away with it.

luminated

cit_k wrote: »

What outlandish claims are you referring to?

As for the information being freely available, it is, but only if

a) you have vast amounts of time
b) are prepared to do your own freedom of information requests
c) do lots of research and know where to look, and what your looking for.

Quite a lot of professionals subscribe to B&W, its a legit registered company, and so far, I just see people slating it 'vaguely' without one ounce of fact or evidence to back it up?

Do people have a hidden agenda against a site that exposes the truth?

I fully agree with you on this post.

I read some negative comments about B&W on this forum which made me very wary. But I also have read opposing & positive comments on other forums. I am used to having to carry out in depth research, in my past working life, but to find all the freely available stuff tucked away here and there on the Web would have been too time consuming.

To me the £17.70 annual payment meant all the right information in one location. It helped me get my DLA claim form filled in which was sent off last week. So wait and see now!!!!!

moose1982

cit_k wrote: »

What outlandish claims are you referring to?

As for the information being freely available, it is, but only if

a) you have vast amounts of time
b) are prepared to do your own freedom of information requests
c) do lots of research and know where to look, and what your looking for.

Quite a lot of professionals subscribe to B&W, its a legit registered company, and so far, I just see people slating it 'vaguely' without one ounce of fact or evidence to back it up?

Do people have a hidden agenda against a site that exposes the truth?

(My bold)

Bear with me and I'll scan the letter I received from DWP about this 'selling of all DLA applicants details to G4S' that apparently happened. Or at least I'll try and do it, my scanner hasn't been working too well with this new router from Virgin Media. Would that be evidence at all worth more than an ounce?

Front
Back

I've blanked some bits out that are either personal to me, or could be contact details for DWP only for this trial. If the details are printed elsewhere on the web, then fair enough, but I don't them tracked back to me.

cit_k

moose1982 wrote: »

(My bold)

Bear with me and I'll scan the letter I received from DWP about this 'selling of all DLA applicants details to G4S' that apparently happened. Or at least I'll try and do it, my scanner hasn't been working too well with this new router from Virgin Media. Would that be evidence at all worth more than an ounce?

Front
Back

I've blanked some bits out that are either personal to me, or could be contact details for DWP only for this trial. If the details are printed elsewhere on the web, then fair enough, but I don't them tracked back to me.

Your scan only proves exactly what benefits and work said?

It proves that the DWP have passed on (no doubt sold, as these companies do not do things for free) your details to the g4s company.

G4S will call you

It says that on your letter, so g4s ALREADY have your details.

So the evidence shows that benefits and work are telling the truth.

Plus considering how much slating b&w is getting for 'scaremongering', why did you make out that they are claiming that ALL DLA applicants details were sold?

Benefits and work never said ANYTHING of the sort, they said

Without their prior knowledge, the DWP has passed the names of many hundreds of DLA claimants to the company, which then contacts them directly.

which is rather different to your statement of

'selling of all DLA applicants details to G4S'

So who is really scaremongering?

jetta_wales

"It proves that the DWP have passed on (no doubt sold, as these companies do not do things for free) your details to the g4s company."

Sold? They are the company that the government have given the task of assessing DLA claimants and trials of their assessments are obviously necessary. Do you honestly think the government have employed them to do a job and then asked them to buy the information from the DWP which it would be completely impossible for them to work without?

The letter posted above was following a phone call from the DWP requesting if they would be willing to take part in the trial assessments so permission was given would have been given prior to the DWP giving their details to the new company.

cit_k

jetta_wales wrote: »

"It proves that the DWP have passed on (no doubt sold, as these companies do not do things for free) your details to the g4s company."

Sold? They are the company that the government have given the task of assessing DLA claimants and trials of their assessments are obviously necessary. Do you honestly think the government have employed them to do a job and then asked them to buy the information from the DWP which it would be completely impossible for them to work without?

The letter posted above was following a phone call from the DWP requesting if they would be willing to take part in the trial assessments so permission was given would have been given prior to the DWP giving their details to the new company.

The letter clearly states that if you dont want to participate, let them know and the will 'ttry to pass on this information to g4s before they call you to organise an appointment.'

This clearly shows g4s already have that persons details, otherwise the dwp would not have to 'try' (only try??) to contact them to cancell g4s's attempts to arrange the appointment.

jetta_wales

cit_k wrote: »

The letter clearly states that if you dont want to participate, let them know and the will 'ttry to pass on this information to g4s before they call you to organise an appointment.'

This clearly shows g4s already have that persons details, otherwise the dwp would not have to 'try' (only try??) to contact them to cancell g4s's attempts to arrange the appointment.

It also clearly states that has been sent following the phone call they received asking their permission FIRST.

moose1982

I feel as though this thread has people in two camps, one that believe that whatever the B&W website is the whole truth and nothing made up or used as a lure to get more subscribscriptions and the other camp is with people who can see that B&W are out to gain profit and can see past their sales tactics.

DWP phoned me and asked if I would be prepared to help with the assessments. Believing that helping DWP get the right results from the assessments is in everyone's interest, I said yes, then my details were sent to G4S.

My details were never with G4S until I gave that permission, so actually that website IS lying and I am not scaremongering at all. They say I can opt out of the assessment which is something I will do if I can find employment, but until then, I still see it as a good idea to help DWP. No doubt similar tests were made for the ESA assessments.

I don't think arguing between the camps is good for anyone and we should all agree to have different views on B&W and their website.

hrafndot

cit_k wrote: »

Personally, I dont think they 'scaremonger' enough, even the forums are heavily moderated and political type discussions are not allowed etc.

If reporting what is going on is scary, then thats not the fault of the reporter - its the fault of the people for allowing the government to get away with it.

[FONT=&quot]In the face of fear, there is nothing else to do but to become ungovernable.[/FONT]

At the time, spending the £20 pa for B&W paid back over the odds in calming me down and organising my thoughts. It was well, well, worth it. Knowing what I know now, I can apply knowledge and judgment, but I couldn't then.

The newsletters are their version of "News of the World" -type marketing. Its a bit ludicrous, a bit out of date, but its more important to keep the documentation/guidance up to date. And I do wish they would get their links sorted out, otherwise I've known nothing but kindness and good advice on that site.

The issues they have revealed have been a disgrace, a national disgrace and it is they who have been fighting on the front line and I have seen it happening.

Worse than what I had expected has come to pass and I have to support myself and two more chronically sick friends at the end of the phone while they are going through this process, there will be more; we can feel our conditions becoming worse, day by day, that's caused by the constant additional stress.

I said some time ago that people are going blindly into this "migration". Sick people not used to chaos and not used to stress, indignity or needing to be assertive; used to a system which was not hostile and didn't presume guilt. They do of course know of the maelstrom of hostile propaganda.

I'm sure there's a lot more horror that will unfold, but I'm not going to spoil the chilling drama of our big brother house.

I now know where to look and there are some brilliant sites available

"Scaremongering" is a tory type word. Euphemistically, it means "don't make a fuss, swallow our blether, don't shout warnings and move along quietly now".

Learned helplessness is not a way I want to live. Ask questions. Why are our benefits systems being outsourced to another country? Why? I'm a citizen with rights, not a commodity. Change the narrative, I'm not playing.

mardatha

I don't know of any other sites - are they secret ? And I don't know what other country. I wish I did. Is hard to fight what you can't see and don't know about
And because people are so quick to start squabbling and bickering is the reason the govt have & will get away with it!!
Instead of turning on each other and nitpicking about tiny things - why not stand back and look at the big thing that's rolling towards us all, and fight it instead?
But somebody will be right back in asap with a smart answer to me instead. ...