driving uninsured - help/advise

Woody._2

thenudeone wrote: »

The officer does not have to believe it's uninsured, he just needs reasonable grounds for believing so:

Same thing isn't it?

Wig

I think that's what I said,
reasonable grounds to believe means that he must first believe it, and that he must have reasonable grounds to come to that belief.

What you said is that he merely needs to suspect it is the case and that his suspicion must be reasonable.

These are very different positions of what an officer must have.

mrnasty

current position regarding seizure :- Pryor v Greater Manchester Police [2011] EWCA Civ 749
Authority for the proposition that:

The proper test for establishing whether vehicle may be seized is:

In order to justify seizure of a vehicle three facts must be present:

1. a constable in uniform must require that a driver produces a relevant certificate of insurance,
2. the driver must fail to produce the relevant certificate, and
3. the constable must have reasonable grounds for believing that the vehicle was being driven without insurance.

The Judgement in the District Court rested on the third element of the test. However, the Court of Appeal made it clear that that this element of the test only applies if the driver fails to produce the relevant certificate.

m2_225288

vax2002 wrote: »

I have never seen a policy that does not say : can not be used to secure release of a third parties vehicle that has been seized.
Seized is a legal term for "taking Back ownership" the Registration certificate is a contract that gives away ownership it "registers" your car to DVLA, they issue a registration certificate in which they then allow you to become the Keeper of DVLA property, if you break those rules they can seize it back and do what they like with it.
Read the registration certificate you are not the owner, you are the "registered Keeper" DVLA OWN the car as long as it is registered to them

Could someone expand on the V5C "DVLA OWNS" my vehicle?
I paid for it they did not.

Thank you.

[Deleted User]

m2_225288 wrote: »

Could someone expand on the V5C "DVLA OWNS" my vehicle?
I paid for it they did not.

Thank you.

The DVLA don't own your vehicle. The V5C shows the registered keeper. The registered keeper does not always have to be the owner of the vehicle though.

m2_225288

Deleted_User wrote: »

The DVLA don't own your vehicle. The V5C shows the registered keeper. The registered keeper does not always have to be the owner of the vehicle though.

Thank you for your answer,

a on this subject last question "how is by law defined the owner of the vehicle"? Person who paid for it? Can I transfer ownership?

Thank you.

[Deleted User]

m2_225288 wrote: »

Thank you for your answer,

a on this subject last question "how is by law defined the owner of the vehicle"? Person who paid for it? Can I transfer ownership?

Thank you.

Yes, whoever is on the invoice/bill of sale for the vehicle is the owner.

BYALPHAINDIA

Quote

I do belive though as situations like these do happen the police should show more caution before impounding a vehicle.[/QUOTE]

They 'Should' But they 'Don't'

It is 'Easy' work for them, And coming from 'Past' experiences some appeared to act of the form of getting a personal 'Buzz' out of 'Doing' the general public.:(

mrnasty

As correctly stated above, the DVLA do not own your vehicle, which is why in the case I cited above Pryor v Greater Manchester Police [2011] EWCA Civ 749 when the police failed to meet the test required for them to take this persons vehicle away, they were found guilty/liable of unlawful interferrence with property, which in this case was the vehicle which belonged to the claimant.

Another thing that they don't tell people is that, had they taken a persons car away, had that person even been found guilty of driving without insurance, when the police take your car away and dispose of it i.e. sell it, you are entittled under:

S.8 (1) Road Traffic Act 1988 (Retention and Disposal of Seized Motor Vehicles) Regulations 2005 for the net proceeds of the sale to be sent for the value of the vehicle.

So whether you are found guilty or not of no insurance, your enttitled to the money for your vehicle being sold.

Of course, I am not condoning driving without insurance but of course, for the police to take your vehicle off the road, as well as summons you to court where you get 6 points + fine it would be a double penalty for them to be able to not only take the car away but sell it and you loose the value of the car also.

thenudeone

mrnasty wrote: »

for the net proceeds of the sale to be sent for the value of the vehicle.

but the typical uninsured car isn't worth that much, and after the statutory storage fees and cost of environmental disposal costs are deducted, there is unlikely to be any net proceeds left!