Public sector earn 50% more than private sector

chewmylegoff

ILW wrote: »

You do seem to be contradicting yourself a little there, if as you say it is easier for these people to hide in the public sector, would that not encourage that type to apply to work there?

possibly, but it doesn't mean that only that type works there. there are a fair amount of useless layabouts here, who have no doubt been attracted by just that ideal. there are also people who do what is required on them and not a bit more, who strictly clock watch. there are also a lot of well motivated, competent people who work very hard.

some of the people in the latter category tend to be here for 2-4 years to get specific experience which you can only get at this organisation and nowhere else, and then go back into private pracitce. but not all of them do this, and there are a lot of very good people who have been here a long time, because the work is very interesting.

the thing that does strike me the most, is that the public sector is so much less aggressive about getting rid of people. that said, even though the firm i worked for when i was in practice did fire people for being rubbish, there were still utterly useless people there, who probably did about 15 hours work a week, were incompetent and lazy and had been there for years and years and years.

they just didn't wear corduroy like they do in the public sector.

Old_Slaphead

Pennywise wrote: »

Trouble is that in the private sector there are highly paid jobs and low paid jobs - it depends on your experience, qualifications, location and pure luck which you get. Time after time, public sector people compare themselves to the "best" of the private sector rather than the typical private sector worker.

Take my profession, accountancy. There have been posters on these fora who work for HMRC in a fairly lowly capacity comparing their £20k p.a. to jobs in firms of accountants advertised at say £50k. That's pure fairytale stuff - they fail to compare themselves with the typical/average job in a local accountancy practice that's £15k-£20k for an unqualified accountant with little relevant experience. Even myself, as a fully qualified accountant with 30 years experience would be lucky to get £30k p.a. in my local area in a job that I'd be likely to secure. I'd have to move to the City and hope to be lucky enough to beat loads of others with comparable quals/exp to get £50k or more. I've never even paid higher rate tax so that tells you exactly what an average accountant gets for working in an average practice outside the main Cities!

The fact is that the above-average private sector jobs are highly sought after and the average worker (public or private) is highly unlikely to even get an interview let alone be offered the job. Just because there are "some" private sector workers who get good, high paid jobs doesn't mean all do, in fact, not even most do - in fact, most will be just plodding on on average wages, similar if not lower than public sector workers.

Spot on, Pennywise.

ILW

ninky wrote: »

oh right so let's make a judgement based on your one anecdotal.

nonsense.

That was in answer to your specific question about people going from private to public sector. I do also know quite a few that work in both and there is a difference in attitude towards work, primarily about entitlement. This may be skewed as none of those in the private sector are unionised.

ninky_2

ILW wrote: »

That was in answer to your specific question about people going from private to public sector. I do also know quite a few that work in both and there is a difference in attitude towards work, primarily about entitlement. This may be skewed as none of those in the private sector are unionised.

being part of a union can actually be a sign of a greater commitment to the job than not being in a union. given that you have to pay to be part of one (i pay over 25 quid a month to mine) and they frequently run training courses and discuss workplace issues then it shows an interest in your sector, quality issues and the working environment.

ILW

ninky wrote: »

being part of a union can actually be a sign of a greater commitment to the job than not being in a union. given that you have to pay to be part of one (i pay over 25 quid a month to mine) and they frequently run training courses and discuss workplace issues then it shows an interest in your sector, quality issues and the working environment.

Unionisation can supress initiative at times. If in a department everybody of the same grade is on the same salary regardless of how hard they work, or how effective they are, there is little incentive to be better than ones colleagues.

ninky_2

ILW wrote: »

Unionisation can supress initiative at times. If in a department everybody of the same grade is on the same salary regardless of how hard they work, or how effective they are, there is little incentive to be better than ones colleagues.

that's not a direct result of unionisation. the decision to pay people the same salary according to level can happen regardless of whether a workplace is unionised. unions may well input on minimum pay levels. they are generally low in my experience. can't see why that is a problem.

ILW

Cllective pay bargaining tends to favour the less able employee.

ninky_2

ILW wrote: »

Cllective pay bargaining tends to favour the less able employee.

not necessarily. it does seem to drive wages up for everyone. as the tube drivers will attest to (one of the sacked drivers they've been striking over just won his employment tribunal out of interest).

unions aren't interested in capping capability, more protecting those on the bottom rung.

of course there are frustrations involved with unionised labour - negociating can be time consuming and that costs money - but it does seem to engender a strong work ethic and the removal of unions seems to have gone hand in hand with a reduction of pride in working in lower status jobs.

personally i think giving some power back to the labour force through the ability to collectivise is a necessary check to the ability of capital to collectivise its own interests / power.

PipPip

Its a tough call for me (yet another accountant, sorry). I trained with a good friend who took a job in finance at the local council whilst I went for private sector. If we compare where we are today: his income is about half of mine but he has a great final salary pension scheme with 19 years of service, whilst I have a defined contribution scheme with enough in to generate a small fraction of my current salary. If you look at total accrued assets he is probably better off, but its pretty close as I've used the extra income to pay off my mortgage. In terms of work - I have always quite enjoyed my work even though it can be stressful. I work amongst many extremely intelligent and ambitious people. He on the other hand has over the years developed an increasingly bored look in his eyes and he is quite open about it - his work is mind numbingly boring but he feels locked in now due to the pension. His work life balance is simply incomparable to mine - he works strictly 9 to 5 but gets time off in lieu for every moment of overtime he works and by taking half the alloted lunch break each day he accrues a Friday off every other week to play golf. I work in an environment where 8am to 8pm is the norm at my level and the idea of actually having an alloted lunch break is quite a giggle.
So that's my little anecdote: work life balance he is better off, financially I'm better off in the here and now but in the long game he may win due to his amazing pension, it terms of getting any pleasure out of work his is a living hell whilst my work is variable and can be enjoyable, but can also be full of stress. Personally I prefer my choice but I may regret that at pension age.

macaque_2

mbga9pgf wrote: »

I am in thr military. I have a job directly comparable with one on the outside. Pay comparison? Nowhere near. 53k currently, lowest comparable i have found outside for the same job is 80k, with much better benefits and allowances in civvie street. You may have read about the military shedding jobs. In some sreas, the military is suffering a huge crisis in retention. We are seein.g largenumbers of people saying "sod this i am off".

Judging by the job ads in the Guardian, pen pushers and middle managment in local councils are grossly over paid and from what I read, grossly over staffed.

I have seen in the press how much people in the armed services get paid and it strikes me as shockingly low. I also think the police get a pretty poor deal. The pay structure in the public sector does not seem to follow any logic.