Unfair/Illeagal ban of used software sales

Equaliser123

esuhl wrote: »

Books, CDs and paintings are defined as intellectual property rules, aren't they? So does that mean that second-hand bookshops are breaking copyright law, and that selling used CDs on eBay is unlawful?

Good point. However, generally the licences that go with those works you mention are much less restrictive. You don't, for example, have any means of clicking to accept the terms contained within them like you do software.

Enforcement would, in any event, be nigh on impossible.

Tropez

This is the important part of Steam's Subcriber Agreement - Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement and the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software and All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Software and any and all copies thereof are owned by Valve and/or its licensors. All rights reserved, except as expressly stated herein. The Software is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international copyright treaties and conventions and other laws. The Software contains certain licensed materials and Valve's licensors may protect their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement.

Steam provides you with a licence to use the software but "purchasing" software through Steam does not confer upon the buyer ownership of the product.

The OP should contact the seller regarding the software they purchased in order to pursue a refund, as that person did not have the right to try and sell the software on. If the seller refuses, then raising an issue with ebay/paypal may yield some results.

Flyboy152

DeeMarie89 wrote: »

No, you're missing the point. I was saying that as the original buyer is pre warned in the T&C's that they cannot sell etc this license, and the fact that they have done so has negatively impacted the OP. But it's not the company that is acting illegally, it's the reseller.

Also, if your T&C's stated the balloon must be let down, and the original buyer agrees to the T&C's, then sure, it's perfectly legal.

As long as the T&C's don't encourage illegal activity, and a person agrees to them, they are bound by those T&C's.

It seems to me that the OP is just being a little sore that Steam have thwarted his attempts to buy cheap software and deprive them of their profits

I think you have a skewed perspective of contract law and what unfair terms mean, ergo it is you and Equalizer who are missing the point. If something in a contract could be considered to be unfair, it is unenforceable. Now, I have no idea whether the specific term included in the sale of this particular game is unfair or not, the point is, one should not blindly accept a condition, just because the seller says so.

If I sell you a loaf of bread and I put in the terms and conditons that you have to run to the top of Ben Nevis, before you are allowed to make a sandwich, do you think you'd have to put your trainers on, before making lunch?

Equaliser123

Flyboy152 wrote: »

I think you have a skewed perspective of contract law and what unfair terms mean, ergo it is you and Equalizer who are missing the point. If something in a contract could be considered to be unfair, it is unenforceable. Now, I have no idea whether the specific term included in the sale of this particular game is unfair or not, the point is, one should not blindly accept a condition, just because the seller says so.

If I sell you a loaf of bread and I put in the terms and conditons that you have to run to the top of Ben Nevis, before you are allowed to make a sandwich, do you think you'd have to put your trainers on, before making lunch?

I think you have an over-optimistic view of the Unfair Contract Terms Act and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. They generally relate to restrictions on the performance obligations of the seller rather than what the contract can include.

DeeMarie89

Flyboy152 wrote: »

I think you have a skewed perspective of contract law and what unfair terms mean, ergo it is you and Equalizer who are missing the point. If something in a contract could be considered to be unfair, it is unenforceable. Now, I have no idea whether the specific term included in the sale of this particular game is unfair or not, the point is, one should not blindly accept a condition, just because the seller says so.

If I sell you a loaf of bread and I put in the terms and conditons that you have to run to the top of Ben Nevis, before you are allowed to make a sandwich, do you think you'd have to put your trainers on, before making lunch?

And yet there is nothing unfair about selling single use items.
And no, I wouldn't put my trainers on, I'd disagree with your T&C's and go buy my bread, or an alternative foodstuff, elsewhere. Something which the OP is more than welcome to do.

DCFC79

OP its been like this for some time but maybe not as widespread(not been a steam user for long), its 1 of the downfalls of pc games,

the same could be said of the xbox 360 market as some game companies now have a code in the box and once its used thats it(key is used for multiplayer) and if the game is sold after being traded in then you have to purchase a new key if you want to go online

custardy

DCFC79 wrote: »

OP its been like this for some time but maybe not as widespread(not been a steam user for long), its 1 of the downfalls of pc games,

well in some ways
I lost some PC games when we moved house
however as they were registered on Steam I lost nothing but the physical discs

DCFC79

custardy wrote: »

well in some ways
I lost some PC games when we moved house
however as they were registered on Steam I lost nothing but the physical discs

yes thats where steam is useful,

Nilrem

DCFC79 wrote: »

yes thats where steam is useful,

I would say excels
The really nice thing is that you can even do installs partly from discs and part from downloading, or copy your steam folder to your backup drive (so if you suffer a HDD failure and need to reinstall all you do is install the basic steam client, then copy over your backup of the games).
And buy many of the games at the cheapest retail price and still get the advantages of the Steam client (I rarely buy games direct from steam)

IIRC Steam has been around for 7 or 8 years (I vaguely remember the problems it had when it started in about 2002), and has always had the same basic T&C with regards to not being allowed to sell the games (or accounts) on.

The thing about only having a licence to the game is, why from memory most of the games companies will sell you a replacement disc (or other media) for a set fee, often (at least when the game is relatively new), much cheaper than the full package if you damage the disc.
For example if you buy MOH 2011 edition (now more consolified) and it's £35 RRP, but you break the disc in the first week, the chances are you can get a replacement disc for ~£10 direct from the manufacturer - but you won't get the CD key with that replacement disc as you'll be using the one from the full game package.

Flyboy152

Equaliser123 wrote: »

I think you have an over-optimistic view of the Unfair Contract Terms Act and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. They generally relate to restrictions on the performance obligations of the seller rather than what the contract can include.

DeeMarie89 wrote: »

And yet there is nothing unfair about selling single use items.
And no, I wouldn't put my trainers on, I'd disagree with your T&C's and go buy my bread, or an alternative foodstuff, elsewhere. Something which the OP is more than welcome to do.

Can none of you read?

I am not making any comment on the OP's case. I am merely making a general point that because something is included in a set of terms and conditions, does not automatically make it enforceable. How many different ways do you want me to write it?

Equaliser, I am not sure whether you quite understand what I am writing, or you are just trying wriggle out of an earlier misunderstanding whilst retaining some face.

If the latter is true, I suggest you stop digging.