staff meeting outside hours

pinkprincessangel

This is a first draft of the letter I shall be sending. Any input will be appreciated. (This will be given to him after the meeting)

RE Staff meeting/Training

As you are aware the meeting at 9am on May 15th 2011 has caused me great difficulty in order to attend regarding travel and inconvenience. I chose to attend this meeting as it was classed as important, and relevant to my employment and also due to being on holiday the following day, I had someone available to transport me to the metro stop and also to care for my daughter. This was a one off, and will not be repeated again. I will not be attending any more meetings outside my normal working shift. This is due to finances and childcare. Should a meeting be required during the week outside my normal Wednesday to Friday shift I would have to hope my childminder is available. This cost would be £4 per hour as this is outside her contracted hours and at a higher rate. She would be required to have my daughter inclusive of travel time, so a 3 hour meeting from 9am and 12pm for example, would mean childcare is required for 8am to 1pm. Cost of childcare is £20 for the time, pay from the company is £17.79 for the 3 hours so as you can see I incur a loss of £2.21. Also my current childcare is funded mostly by the government scheme, whereas childcare for meetings would not be inclusive of this and I would incur full charges. This I cannot afford on a monthly basis. Secondly should the meeting be requested on a weekend I do not have available childcare at all, nor is travel easy.
I have also been made aware that my daughter is not insured to be on the premises when the shop is shut, therefore it is not a plausible option to bring her along, because should anything happen, she wouldn’t be covered by the company.
I am not trying to be difficult, I wanted to make you aware of my circumstances and the reasoning behind my decision. I have spoken to HR about this and they have agreed that my reasons are justifiable and agree I cannot attend outside my hours. I understand this may complicate matters slightly but I cannot do any more than what I already have.

pinkprincessangel

I figured i cant afford to attend outside my usual working hours anyway so its pretty much set.

getmore4less

overkill,

get HR to tell him whats allowed in writing CC you, back it up verbaly yourself that you have HR on your side.

You do not have to justify anything to him, HR have aggreed thats enough.

If you must do it in writing keep it simple.

Dear XX
CC: HR

Please ensure that all meeting are held during normal working hours as per HR guidlines.

best regards
ppa.

Sambucus_Nigra

I would repeat my advice not to write to him at all.

pinkprincessangel

This is where the advice gets conflicted. HR and the union lady I spoke to have verbally advised to put it in writing that I cannot attend outside my usual hours and the reasons why. If I tell him in person he'll likely just come back with something else. If I put it in writing and message HR with a copy then I've covered my back by informing him I wont attend, well in advance of further meetings and why.
HR wont get involved regarding simple matters like staff meetings unless I file a grievance which I wont do unless I have a need to. If I put it in writing I wont come across as arguing about it, I will just state my point.

DVardysShadow

pinkprincessangel wrote: »

This is where the advice gets conflicted. HR and the union lady I spoke to have verbally advised to put it in writing that I cannot attend outside my usual hours and the reasons why.

2 ways of looking at this, the HR and your union way and the other way.

Your letter makes a complete meal of it - admittedly it does go with the advice form HR and the union.

But the simple fact of the matter is that you can just say 'no' to meetings outside contracted hours and that is the end of the matter in contractual terms. And 'no, it is outwith my contractual terms' is all the explanation you need to give your boss.

The more you write explanations, the more your boss has you on the run. He can give you lawful orders in work, but giving you orders concerning your own non-contracted time is a no-no. And you need to be confident that this excuse of a manager has no powers outside your contracted hours.

Seriously, you should not be compromising on this. The place for compromise is if he asks you as a favour and acknowledging that he has no right to insist. As he has threatened you with dismissal, I think compromising sends a wrong message which you will probably regret.

If you must send a letter, it needs to be short and sharp - nothing to do with a litany of difficulties, just a clear statement that a Sunday meeting is outwith your contract and [if you are attending] that attendance is on the basis of goodwill and that threats of dismissal have been overlooked on this occasion only.

getmore4less

pinkprincessangel wrote: »

This is where the advice gets conflicted. HR and the union lady I spoke to have verbally advised to put it in writing that I cannot attend outside my usual hours and the reasons why. If I tell him in person he'll likely just come back with something else. If I put it in writing and message HR with a copy then I've covered my back by informing him I wont attend, well in advance of further meetings and why.
HR wont get involved regarding simple matters like staff meetings unless I file a grievance which I wont do unless I have a need to. If I put it in writing I wont come across as arguing about it, I will just state my point.

If you must keep it simple, something like
"Due to family comitments and costs I have been advised by both HR and the unions that attending meetings outside my normal hours is not required".

Putting in all the personal/financial details just gives the boss too much information about your circumstances that they could use against you.

You could put in a grievence against HR for not clarifying the position with the management.

thriftymanc

Definitely don't put anything in writing to them. In fact, even though you've already indicated that you will attend, don't attend the meeting this Sunday.

It doesn't matter how much you stress to your boss that it was a complete bumache to arrange childcare and transport, how you're losing out financially, and how this will most definitely be a one-off and that you won't attend future Sunday meetings. All your boss will remember is that "well, she managed it this Sunday, so she's got no excuse to not attend every Sunday from now on". Don't try to meet them part way as a favour or to be polite as it'll just backfire and they'll expect you to do it every time. Take it from someone who has experience of this sort of thing. If they need you in a meeting they can do it on your hours and not theirs!

Savvy_Sue

I agree with thriftymanc and those who are saying either don't write, or keep it very very simple.

And personally I'd be saying "Dear Manager, as you know, I have taken advice from Fred in HR and he has advised that I cannot be required to attend a meeting outside my contracted hours. I look forward to completing the necessary training and paperwork within my next shift."

If you go, you send all the messages thriftymanc suggests, PLUS by the sound of it you'll be getting an unsupportive ex-partner's back up and 'owing' him. It's just not worth it.

If the manager says "but I thought you said you could come after all" just say "sorry, the arrangements didn't work out."

DVardysShadow

thriftymanc wrote: »

... It doesn't matter how much you stress to your boss that it was a complete bumache to arrange childcare and transport ...

Took me a while to realise that was not an obscure French word.