SNP Win - The Economics of D-I-V-O-R-C-E

pbouk

Chimpofdoom wrote: »

Really? Look up "Convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone" (Territorial waters), the law states that 14miles from the base land is regarded as the sovereign territory of the state. So by international law it would belong to Scotland.



Neither does Ireland... although they do have a defence force!



Why wouldn't there still be lottery funding? Do you think companies south of the border will want to cut their revenue streams short by excluding Scotland?

Funnily after a quick google the BBC knocked up a document back in 2007 about a "Scottish divorce"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7129382.stm

its UK lottery for uk athletes, that would not include scotland if they where independent. do we fund france er no, do we fund italy er no, so why would UK lottery fund scots athletes.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ILW wrote: »

Does Scotland actually have much of an economy?

That is if you discount oil and banking.

You'd be surprised......

Major industries include banking and financial services, construction education, entertainment, biotechnology, transport equipment, oil and gas, whisky, and tourism. The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of Scotland was measured at just over £86.3 billion (€126 billion, $170 billion) by the Office for National Statistics in 2005, statistics.gov.uk giving a per capita GDP of £16,944 (€24,792, $33,460). Scottish National Accounts Project (SNAP) has estimated GDP for Scotland at £119 billion in 2005 and £137 billion for 2009.

Edinburgh is the financial services centre of Scotland, with many large financial firms based there. Glasgow is the fourth largest manufacturing centre in the UK, accounting for well over 60% of Scotland's manufactured exports. Shipbuilding, although significantly diminished from its heights in the early 20th century, is still a large part of the Glasgow economy. Aberdeen is the centre of North Sea offshore oil and gas production, with giants such as Shell and BP housing their European exploration and production HQs in the city. Other important industries include textile production, chemicals, distilling, agriculture, brewing and fishing.

Whisky:
Whisky is probably the best known of Scotland's manufactured exports contributing around £800 million to the Scottish economy, supporting 41,000 jobs as well as adding £2 billion to the balance of trade making it one of the UK’s top five manufacturing export earners. The Whisky industry also generates a substantial income for the government with around £1.6bn raised in duty each year.

Technology:
Companies such as IBM and Hewlett-Packard have been in Scotland since the 1950s being joined in the 1980s by others such as Sun Microsystems (now owned by Oracle). 45,000 people are employed by electronics and electronics-related firms, accounting for 12% of manufacturing output. Scotland produces 28% of Europe’s PCs; more than seven per cent of the world’s PCs; and 29% of Europe’s notebooks.

Energy:
Scotland is endowed with some of the best energy resources in Europe, and is a net exporter of electricity, with a generating capacity of 10.1GW primarily from coal, oil, gas and nuclear generation.

Forestry:
About 13,340 km² of land in Scotland is forested - this represents around 15% of the total land area of Scotland. The economic activities generated by forestry in Scotland include planting and harvesting as well as sawmilling, the production of pulp and paper and the manufacture of higher value goods

Agriculture:
Barley, wheat and potatoes are grown in eastern parts of Scotland such as Aberdeenshire, Moray, Highland, Fife and the Scottish Borders. The Tayside and Angus area is a centre of production of soft fruits such as strawberries, raspberries and loganberries, owing to the mild climate. Parts of the east of Scotland (areas such as Aberdeenshire, Fife and Angus) are major centres of cereal production and general cropping. The south-west of Scotland - principally Ayrshire and Dumfries and Galloway - is a centre of dairying. Agriculture, especially cropping in Scotland, is highly mechanised and generally efficient. Farms tend to cover larger areas than their European counterparts. Hill farming is also prominent in the Southern Uplands in the south of Scotland, resulting in the production of wool, Lamb and mutton. Cattle-Rearing particularly in the east and south of Scotland results in the production of large amounts of beef.

Tourism:
It is estimated that tourism accounts for 3% of Scotland's economic output. Scotland is a well-developed tourist destination with attractions ranging from unspoilt countryside, mountains and abundant history. Tourism is responsible for sustaining 200,000 jobs mainly in the service sector, with tourist spending averaging at £4bn per year

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Scotland

ruggedtoast

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

You'd be surprised......

Major industries include banking and financial services, construction education, entertainment, biotechnology, transport equipment, oil and gas, whisky, and tourism. The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of Scotland was measured at just over £86.3 billion (€126 billion, $170 billion) by the Office for National Statistics in 2005, statistics.gov.uk giving a per capita GDP of £16,944 (€24,792, $33,460). Scottish National Accounts Project (SNAP) has estimated GDP for Scotland at £119 billion in 2005 and £137 billion for 2009.

Edinburgh is the financial services centre of Scotland, with many large financial firms based there. Glasgow is the fourth largest manufacturing centre in the UK, accounting for well over 60% of Scotland's manufactured exports. Shipbuilding, although significantly diminished from its heights in the early 20th century, is still a large part of the Glasgow economy. Aberdeen is the centre of North Sea offshore oil and gas production, with giants such as Shell and BP housing their European exploration and production HQs in the city. Other important industries include textile production, chemicals, distilling, agriculture, brewing and fishing.

Whisky:
Whisky is probably the best known of Scotland's manufactured exports contributing around £800 million to the Scottish economy, supporting 41,000 jobs as well as adding £2 billion to the balance of trade making it one of the UK’s top five manufacturing export earners. The Whisky industry also generates a substantial income for the government with around £1.6bn raised in duty each year.

Technology:
Companies such as IBM and Hewlett-Packard have been in Scotland since the 1950s being joined in the 1980s by others such as Sun Microsystems (now owned by Oracle). 45,000 people are employed by electronics and electronics-related firms, accounting for 12% of manufacturing output. Scotland produces 28% of Europe’s PCs; more than seven per cent of the world’s PCs; and 29% of Europe’s notebooks.

Energy:
Scotland is endowed with some of the best energy resources in Europe, and is a net exporter of electricity, with a generating capacity of 10.1GW primarily from coal, oil, gas and nuclear generation.

Forestry:
About 13,340 km² of land in Scotland is forested - this represents around 15% of the total land area of Scotland. The economic activities generated by forestry in Scotland include planting and harvesting as well as sawmilling, the production of pulp and paper and the manufacture of higher value goods

Agriculture:
Barley, wheat and potatoes are grown in eastern parts of Scotland such as Aberdeenshire, Moray, Highland, Fife and the Scottish Borders. The Tayside and Angus area is a centre of production of soft fruits such as strawberries, raspberries and loganberries, owing to the mild climate. Parts of the east of Scotland (areas such as Aberdeenshire, Fife and Angus) are major centres of cereal production and general cropping. The south-west of Scotland - principally Ayrshire and Dumfries and Galloway - is a centre of dairying. Agriculture, especially cropping in Scotland, is highly mechanised and generally efficient. Farms tend to cover larger areas than their European counterparts. Hill farming is also prominent in the Southern Uplands in the south of Scotland, resulting in the production of wool, Lamb and mutton. Cattle-Rearing particularly in the east and south of Scotland results in the production of large amounts of beef.

Tourism:
It is estimated that tourism accounts for 3% of Scotland's economic output. Scotland is a well-developed tourist destination with attractions ranging from unspoilt countryside, mountains and abundant history. Tourism is responsible for sustaining 200,000 jobs mainly in the service sector, with tourist spending averaging at £4bn per year

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Scotland

Funny you missed off housing, all things considered.

pbouk

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

You'd be surprised......

Major industries include banking and financial services, construction education, entertainment, biotechnology, transport equipment, oil and gas, whisky, and tourism. The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of Scotland was measured at just over £86.3 billion (€126 billion, $170 billion) by the Office for National Statistics in 2005, statistics.gov.uk giving a per capita GDP of £16,944 (€24,792, $33,460). Scottish National Accounts Project (SNAP) has estimated GDP for Scotland at £119 billion in 2005 and £137 billion for 2009.

Edinburgh is the financial services centre of Scotland, with many large financial firms based there. Glasgow is the fourth largest manufacturing centre in the UK, accounting for well over 60% of Scotland's manufactured exports. Shipbuilding, although significantly diminished from its heights in the early 20th century, is still a large part of the Glasgow economy. Aberdeen is the centre of North Sea offshore oil and gas production, with giants such as Shell and BP housing their European exploration and production HQs in the city. Other important industries include textile production, chemicals, distilling, agriculture, brewing and fishing.

Whisky:
Whisky is probably the best known of Scotland's manufactured exports contributing around £800 million to the Scottish economy, supporting 41,000 jobs as well as adding £2 billion to the balance of trade making it one of the UK’s top five manufacturing export earners. The Whisky industry also generates a substantial income for the government with around £1.6bn raised in duty each year.

Technology:
Companies such as IBM and Hewlett-Packard have been in Scotland since the 1950s being joined in the 1980s by others such as Sun Microsystems (now owned by Oracle). 45,000 people are employed by electronics and electronics-related firms, accounting for 12% of manufacturing output. Scotland produces 28% of Europe’s PCs; more than seven per cent of the world’s PCs; and 29% of Europe’s notebooks.

Energy:
Scotland is endowed with some of the best energy resources in Europe, and is a net exporter of electricity, with a generating capacity of 10.1GW primarily from coal, oil, gas and nuclear generation.

Forestry:
About 13,340 km² of land in Scotland is forested - this represents around 15% of the total land area of Scotland. The economic activities generated by forestry in Scotland include planting and harvesting as well as sawmilling, the production of pulp and paper and the manufacture of higher value goods

Agriculture:
Barley, wheat and potatoes are grown in eastern parts of Scotland such as Aberdeenshire, Moray, Highland, Fife and the Scottish Borders. The Tayside and Angus area is a centre of production of soft fruits such as strawberries, raspberries and loganberries, owing to the mild climate. Parts of the east of Scotland (areas such as Aberdeenshire, Fife and Angus) are major centres of cereal production and general cropping. The south-west of Scotland - principally Ayrshire and Dumfries and Galloway - is a centre of dairying. Agriculture, especially cropping in Scotland, is highly mechanised and generally efficient. Farms tend to cover larger areas than their European counterparts. Hill farming is also prominent in the Southern Uplands in the south of Scotland, resulting in the production of wool, Lamb and mutton. Cattle-Rearing particularly in the east and south of Scotland results in the production of large amounts of beef.

Tourism:
It is estimated that tourism accounts for 3% of Scotland's economic output. Scotland is a well-developed tourist destination with attractions ranging from unspoilt countryside, mountains and abundant history. Tourism is responsible for sustaining 200,000 jobs mainly in the service sector, with tourist spending averaging at £4bn per year

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Scotland

its england's oil and england's oil companies. even if scotland had it all for themselves after 30 yrs it would be gone and then what? they would come back to britain, cap in hand like ireland did.

beecher2

pbouk wrote: »

its england's oil and england's oil companies. even if scotland had it all for themselves after 30 yrs it would be gone and then what? they would come back to britain, cap in hand like ireland did.

England's oil - that's a good one. Your posts remind me of the nonsense Scottish Labour spouted - full of negativity and putting Scotland down. We're more than capable of running our own affairs, just like any other country. Personally I think it'd be great to be part of a country which didn't feel it had to prove itself as a superpower, and which didn't take part in illegal wars, allow rendition to take place, or bomb innocent civilians.

chewmylegoff

beecher2 wrote: »

Personally I think it'd be great to be part of a country which didn't feel it had to prove itself as a superpower, and which didn't take part in illegal wars, allow rendition to take place, or bomb innocent civilians.

yeah, pity tony blair got us into all that, eh.

remind me again where he is from?

chewmylegoff

p.s. anyone who says the oil is "english" is quite obviously a troll!

Ian_W

vivatifosi wrote: »

Can I please ask a question of the Scots on the board? I've heard a lot recently about Scottish sectarianism, particularly in football but know very little (well, nothing really) about the issue as it pertains to Scotland. Can anyone give me a an intro on how it affects the country and whether or not it is a big issue? Thanks!

This is a very interesting question which, as yet, remains unanswered.

I think it's fair to say that sectarianism existed in places like Liverpool in the 50's and 60's although I never heard of any in Manchester when I was growing up there. By the 70's I was working in Merseyside and saw no evidence of it then. I was highly surprised, shocked even, when for the 10yrs leading up 2000 I was a fairly regular visitor to Scotland, that sectarianism still seemed to be a significant problem particularly around Glasgow. Recent events around the Old Firm matches tend to suggest it might still be a problem? But I have no 1st hand knowledge.

It's interesting because earlier in the thread it was suggested that public opinion in Scotland was 30odd% for independence with 40odd% opposed but an undecided group who could swing it either way.

Do you really think that if the vote was split 51/49 in favour that independence is viable with such a large minority against? Would the split be on sectarian lines at all?

Of course in an election 1 is a majority but you have the chance to change that a few years down the line. This decision would be as irrevocable as any you could make. The union has lasted 300yrs - any divorce would likely last as long.

I know some organisations who require a 2/3 majority when constitutional changes are proposed and something of this magnitude would surely need the widespread support of the Scottish people? If not - I predict a riot!

Generali

chewmylegoff wrote: »

p.s. anyone who says the oil is "english" is quite obviously a troll!

Maybe. Licences were signed with the Westminster Government. It isn't automatic that those licences revert to Scotland.

I guess an incoming Scottish Government could revoke licences if they weren't given control of them. It would be messy though.

Shakethedisease

Yes, it would definately be messy, especially at the margin's of the borders and the definition of them. But every article and study I've been able to find has put it forward (if independence happened).. is that Scotland would own and be able to grant license on, about 80% of them at least. No arguement. The UK would no longer exist, so, while there would have to be negotiations, in really simple terms. I can't see how England would have any sort of claim on future UK revenues, when the UK ,as it stands, no longer exists and most of the oil is in sovereign and independent Scottish waters ? On what basis possible, would England have a claim there ? Logically ?

The rules inside this international convention have been marshalled in legal disputes, resolving the who-owns-what maritime resources of new states, but with 30 years of experience in looking at the North Sea and its petroleum resources, Kemp is sure of one thing: "There would need to be negotiations. At first between Scotland and England and then perhaps in international arbitration, but it would be a fair estimate that well over 90-per cent of the oil wealth would fall in the Scottish sector with most of the North Sea gas resources, plus the fields in the Irish Sea, going to England."

Whitehall appears to have been aware of this tough economic reality for some time. In a report written in the mid-1970s, the then Scottish Office economist, Gavin McCrone, indicated ownership of North Sea oil would deliver to an independent Scotland "embarrassingly large tax surpluses". McCrone's full report was never made public, fearing it would inflame the It's-Scotland's-Oil debate about the continuing value of the union.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20070325/ai_n18758796/

However, Mr Mackay said it was more realistic to expect that Britain would only allow an independent Scotland an 84 per cent share of North Sea revenues.

Read more: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/224933Red-alert-over-independence-Solo-Scotland-would-be-billions-in-debt-#ixzz1MBRSno2f

However, to be really fair. This SNP win wasn't pushed forward on any oil wealth. The SNP concerns at the moment down that particular avenue.. don't seem to be based on any 'sabre rattling' about the revenue or the old 1970's stuff about 'It's Scotland's Oil'.. there was much more made about the possible job losses that may occur due to the tax levy Osbourne included in the last budget tbh.

It's the the Crown Estate Commision outcome that's the one to watch imho, not the oil/gas. That's the one that will spring all the SNP plans forward regarding other energy sources. This commission ( nothing to do with the Queen ).. currently administers and takes all the cash for licence's around the coast line and 12 miles out. And they've granted quite a few for wind farms and fishing rights etc and have had more than a few fights with locals trying to take 'rentals' on rivers for Salmon fishing etc. All the proceeds going straight to Westminster.

"The first thing to note about this outfit is that it styles itself “The Crown Estate” which causes much confusion since this term (defined in the Crown Estate Act of 1961) actually describes what the CEC manages. The second thing to note is that the property rights that make up the Crown Estate are all defined by the Scots law of property and are all devolved (so in theory they could all be abolished by the Scottish Parliament). The CEC merely administer these public rights and collect the revenues (£9.1 million in 2009-10)"

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2011/02/04/the-scotland-bill-and-the-crown-estate-commissioners/

When there's stuff like this going on...

Plans for a subsea electricity cable linking Scotland and Norway will be examined as part of a study into a proposed new North Sea interconnector...
...SSE Interconnector, a subsidiary of Scottish and Southern Energy, is signing a partnership agreement with two Norwegian and one Swedish utility to examine the feasibility of building the interconnector between the UK and Norway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-12333348

I'd guess the last thing the SNP want is to be bankrolling any research and technology ( along with the Norwegians/Swedes ), only for the Crown Estate to be taking the profits back down to Westminster once it hits 12 miles from the shore eh ? I think the SNP have pretty much given up on the oil being the mainstay of any future Scottish economy. But I don't think they'll take even the slightest chance while they're in power, of the same thing happening again in any future energy 'booms' or opportunities around.

There, I bet I've bored everyone off the thread now lol ! :rotfl: