provident agents [TEXT DELETED BY FORUM TEAM]

HEJKS

bashtheagents wrote: »

Not a good idea to reveal your identity ?

Some agents from our office had letters to head office by our AM faxing them for us. I got the same letter back through the post the next day so its obvious no one had read these letters becuse there would not have been time to read them and get the condesending generic reply out to us so quickly!

jenny5969

I have just copied & pasted this from the AGENTSSAYNO blog .......................... ANYONE KNOW if this is happening and when???



Anonymous says:
May 10, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Self employed status is being investigated. Sun newspaper are doing a feature on it. There is no way that we should be considered as self employed. The company do this to cut down on cost. Inland revenue should be notified by all agents of the irregularities. What I can’t understand we fhave to be vetted but our deputies don’t get any security checks done whatsoever. For all we know we could be sending rapist and pedophiles to the door without knowing. If this happened our company would be in deep !!!!. If we are self employed the company shoulnt be asking us to come in for weekly interviews, shouldn’t tell us who to issue to, shouldn’t set us any targets, shouldnt give us any instructions, shouldn’t tell us when to collect and shouldn’t gdo any issue on our books without our say so. My dm is great but he does all of the above.

empowerthepeople

prov wrote: »

To be honest all this is totally pointless. No one is willing to stand up and organise some kind of action. Do you really think provident will start sacking agents after all the bad publicity they have had recently? That would look good in the mirror wouldnt it?

Someone needs to start organising something and we all need to put our names to it. To be fair to provident for all they know we could be a load of shoppacheck staff on a wind up, on here they have no idea who is posting on here and that is the excuse they will use for ignoring all the comments here.

After 37 pages of complaints i think it time to either put up or shut up

Assuming that you are an agent Prov.....can I ask.......what have you done to rectify this wrong doing?
Have you communicated with head office and informed them how this scheme effects your income?
Have you organised all your colleagues within your branch and formed an action group?
Do you even know how many agents there are at your branch?
Have you seen or arranged to see a firm of employment law solicitors yet?
Have you seen or arranged to see HMRC to define your employment status?
I suspect you havn't done any of the above because you just come on and post your negative comments and wait for someone to come along and do it all for you and then you reap the reward eh?
...and yes I have and am in the process of doing what I asked you!

Marvin-the-Martian_2

:think:
Anonymous
if the company is not supposed to do any of the above how on earth would you be even self employed let alone employed.
as for deputies as you are self employed it is your responsibility to vet them, most people use family or friends i have yet to hear of a case where a deputy has kiddie fiddled a customer. or even murdered a customer because they could only get a part payment that week. but perhaps im wrong.
so lets get this straight you want the company to post your stuff to you without any intructions,
send you your float if needed, by securicor.
hope that you will collect anything from your customers if you do thats fine, if not then who cares.
and god forbid you should do any sales because that would be really inconvenient for every one concerned.

garsen

Im in the process now of going to inland revenue, have been pointed in the direction of IR35, also employment solicitors. an article has appeared in the mirror investigates "Massive Crackdown on widespread and growing abuse of Britains most vunerable workers"
hoping provident falls under this but not 100% sure? Also been pointed in the direction of A Robert Peston BBC Business Editor but have been unable to find a way of contacting him.
A lot of us posting on here are not just posting (crying/whinging as some have stated) on here and leaving it at that, we are coming back to these sites for any updated info we can find.
I dont think people who are not agents actually understand how complicated and costly it is for us to get any type of legal help.
I for one am now not issuing any new loans for people who tend to fall into arrears. Its going to be a long process but im sure provident are going to feel it in the long run with agents leaving, DMs leaving as they have too many books to cover and no agents, customers paying up and not being re-issued to. how many of us can afford to stay and see it out is a different matter!

empowerthepeople

An_Area_Manager wrote: »

I am an area manager and a long time member of this site but have registered a new username to protect my anonymity.

OK guys and gals I will tell you how to beat the system. No one need lose their agency nor quit either. This will all be perfectly legal and within the terms of your agency agreement. You need never have another commission adjustment under this new scheme.

I guess you all know at least one other agent in your office? Pair up with another agent, your agent's agreement specifically states that any agent can act as a deputy for another agent. Only the main agent collecting their own agency is liable for the commission adjustments, if the agency is not paid in against the main agents unique number then all the hits and wins are disregarded. So all you do is deputise for each other on paper.

How to work it.

2 agents lets call them John agency ABC and Mary agency XYZ

• John
• Collects £2000
• Sells £1000
• Commission £200
• Banks £800

• Mary
• Collects £1000
• Sells £500
• Commission £100
• Banks £400

How to pay it in to avoid deductions

• John pays in Mary's agency XYZ but collections only
• Collects XYZ £1000
• Receives cash allocation from Mary XYZ £1000
• Sales £1000
• Commission £200
• Banks £800

• Mary pays in John's agency ABC collections only
• Collects ABC £2000
• Sends cash allocation to John ABC £1000
• Sells £500
• Commission £100
• Banks £400

As you can see both agents still balance all you need to do is swap clips to pay in and do a cash allocation for the difference between what you have both collected. On your receipt pad is a section to complete for cash allocations, fill it in with sending and receiving agents details and receiving agent signs it, each keeps a copy. On your balancing sheet if you are the receiving agent it goes on the left side as cash received and as sending agent it goes on the right side as cash and cheque allocations.

You will then generate commission without deductions and receive each others commission statement. Just swap them doing a receipt for each other for the commission you paid each other for deputy services to keep the tax man happy.

Don't concentrate on the high end stage movements so all the big deductions go through then when you have big potential wins you pay your own book in again. Bank to zero every week, the company pays a flat charge on every float cheque cashed as well as a percentage of the value of the cheque. Customer wants mid week loan? Sorry someone will need to bring me a float.

How long do you think the scheme will last when they only pay out net wins but don't recoup net losses??

We AM's and DM's will lose bonus when the cash loss goes through the roof but so what. We can bear it for a few months until they pull or drastically rethink this scheme.

You should not have deductions for deceased customers or any going to free money advice such as CAB CCCS National debtline or Christians Against Poverty etc. Yes you may incur them initially but once we get the documentation in then I for one will reimburse any deductions to my agents for these customers and then write them off to head office.

As for new doors not paying they are going to change it so one miss is stage 1, 2 misses stage 2 and so on, so not going straight to stage 12 and £15 deduction. Transfers will get a 4 week suspension or until first payment similar to what we had under IQ.

They need to remove the deductions for fee charger accounts and ones not issued by the agent. UTR accounts need to be reported straight away and confirmed by your DM so they can be written off before you get deductions, again we suffer the 100% cash loss hit to write it off early.

Don't give up, stick with it just make the scheme unworkable for head office and they will have to change it.

As an area manager what have you done to support your workforce?
Surely as a manager you have a crucial role to play in the decision making process within the organization.
Surely you have to decide how to best bring and communicate any organizational changes to your agents.
Surely you must play a major role in setting organizational goals.
Surely you have a duty to be in close contact with your agents and establish an 'open door' policy so they feel they can talk to you without fear of any reprisals such as intimidation.
Surely you should understand your agents in order to motivate them.
Surely you should encourage them so that they can perform effectively.
Surely you should praise them when they show brilliant performance and on bad performance, you should give them constructive feedback rather than negative feedback.
Surely you should provide them with support and training.
Surely as a manager you should resolve conflicts among the employees and hear their grieviences in order to reach an acceptable solution....would this not improve the agents work quality as well as performance.
Surely you should understand that the Providents success depends on it's agents.
Surely the more satisfied and happy the agents are the more success the Provident will show.
Surely as a manager you should be committed to your agents.
Surely as a good respected manager you are only too aware that there is more to management skills than just dictating company procedure.


Surely to be a good manager you should listen, report and support your workforce in order to maximise the Provident, managers and agents achievements.,

purplepunto

empowerthepeople wrote: »

As an area manager what have you done to support your workforce?
Surely as a manager you have a crucial role to play in the decision making process within the organization.
Surely you have to decide how to best bring and communicate any organizational changes to your agents.
Surely you must play a major role in setting organizational goals.
Surely you have a duty to be in close contact with your agents and establish an 'open door' policy so they feel they can talk to you without fear of any reprisals such as intimidation.
Surely you should understand your agents in order to motivate them.
Surely you should encourage them so that they can perform effectively.
Surely you should praise them when they show brilliant performance and on bad performance, you should give them constructive feedback rather than negative feedback.
Surely you should provide them with support and training.
Surely as a manager you should resolve conflicts among the employees and hear their grieviences in order to reach an acceptable solution....would this not improve the agents work quality as well as performance.
Surely you should understand that the Providents success depends on it's agents.
Surely the more satisfied and happy the agents are the more success the Provident will show.
Surely as a manager you should be committed to your agents.
Surely as a good respected manager you are only too aware that there is more to management skills than just dictating company procedure.


Surely to be a good manager you should listen, report and support your workforce in order to maximise the Provident, managers and agents achievements.,

The thing here is there is a different manager for sections in the office. Each DM has between 5 and 10 agents. He obviously has to be loyal to his manager. I have been told one or 2 things by him but its all hush hush and no-one wants to rock the boat. Most of the managers here are to busy collecting vacant books so havent got time to visit arrears customers. But in the the years I have worked for Provident, the managers rarely speak to arrears customers even if you ask them to do so. Apart from collecting vacant books they always seem to be doing paperwork!

purplepunto

garsen wrote: »

Im in the process now of going to inland revenue, have been pointed in the direction of IR35, also employment solicitors. an article has appeared in the mirror investigates "Massive Crackdown on widespread and growing abuse of Britains most vunerable workers"
hoping provident falls under this but not 100% sure? Also been pointed in the direction of A Robert Peston BBC Business Editor but have been unable to find a way of contacting him.
A lot of us posting on here are not just posting (crying/whinging as some have stated) on here and leaving it at that, we are coming back to these sites for any updated info we can find.
I dont think people who are not agents actually understand how complicated and costly it is for us to get any type of legal help.
I for one am now not issuing any new loans for people who tend to fall into arrears. Its going to be a long process but im sure provident are going to feel it in the long run with agents leaving, DMs leaving as they have too many books to cover and no agents, customers paying up and not being re-issued to. how many of us can afford to stay and see it out is a different matter!

Try guardian.co.uk - think you can contact him via them

Scoobyagent

Maybe a really mad idea? What if we started our own company, we are self employed afterall .Must be plenty of agents with the inteligence to do this,then we can all jump ship,taking our customers with us.

empowerthepeople

purplepunto wrote: »

The thing here is there is a different manager for sections in the office. Each DM has between 5 and 10 agents. He obviously has to be loyal to his manager. I have been told one or 2 things by him but its all hush hush and no-one wants to rock the boat. Most of the managers here are to busy collecting vacant books so havent got time to visit arrears customers. But in the the years I have worked for Provident, the managers rarely speak to arrears customers even if you ask them to do so. Apart from collecting vacant books they always seem to be doing paperwork!

The point I am trying to make is that the DM's and AM's should be voicing their concerns to head office about the way this scheme has been implemented....yes of course they must continue to carry on the instructions from head office ensuring agents are at least attempting to recuperate customers arrears, but they should also be reporting to head office how unfair this levy is on the agent and that it will destroy the working relationship that the Provident and agents have enjoyed for so long.
Where are these managers...you expect loyalty from your agents....well it's time to stand up managers and show the loyalty you claim you give to your agents....why are you not supporting the very people who are the backbone of the company?
I don't expect one manager to stand in our corner for agents because it has been and is and always will be one way traffic.
Them and us!