Deceased mother didn't declare all her savings!

Beltup

pipkin71 wrote: »

It is wise to ask questions when you first hear that there has been an overpayment and money is to be returned, but there isn't a way out of not paying it back. Your mum received money she was not entitled to.

Thankyou Pipkin, asking questions and trying to gain some knowledge is what this is all about.

We are not looking for a way out but having had some bad experiences with administrative bodies over the years so like to be well informed.

For example...

Mum was denied benefits payments for 2 years despite representations from the Social Workers, a decision later found to be wrong.

I won't go into the fiasco that her aftercare programme became following her broken hip operation.

Some years ago we came within weeks of losing our house because department A, hadn't spoken to department B.

I once received a £14k tax bill which was later reduced to nil, another adminsitrative error.

diolch

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Considering that JSA for over 25s is about £65 per week, I fail to see how saving £40 of this could be a possibility!

You seem to have minimal knowledge of how much people actually receive in means tested benefits!

This thread is referring to those over pension age as you well know, or should do if you read it properly!

Yet you then throw that load of rubbish in - under 25's on JSA indeed. Why not quote a young single mum with 4 children, why not quote someone who is so seriously disabled that they receive the full rate of DLA!!

Those over 65 single are entitled to a minimum income of £132.60 per week and as a couple, £202.40 per week.
What I was saying is that a couple over 65 could so easily save £40 out of their £202, in fact I have actually shown earlier that they could save £100 per week!!

bengal-stripe

pipkin71 wrote: »

With regards savings when in receipt of means tested benefits, once a claimant goes above £6,000, benefits are reduced by £1 for every £250 saved.

That limit was raised to £ 10,000 for the over sixties in Nov. 2009. For them the reduction by £1 per week is for every £500 in savings.

Also the OP's mother would (probably) have been on an ‘Assessed Income Period’ where she would not have to report any additional savings for up to five years.

http://www.saga.co.uk/money/pensions/savings-and-pension-credit.asp

diolch

pipkin71 wrote: »

As the DWP have contacted you, it would seem that your mother was in receipt, at one point, of means tested benefits.

With regards savings when in receipt of means tested benefits, once a claimant goes above £6,000, benefits are reduced by £1 for every £250 saved. Once savings reach £16,000, the claimant is no longer entitled to means tested benefits.

You need to go through statements to see when your mother went over both the £6,000 and £16,000 totals, also, exactly what benefits she was claiming and when.

The fact that your mother is said to have told your sister she would pay her, will have no bearing on the repayment. There is no proof that this was indeed said and in any event, payment should have been made at the tim, if it was indeed to be made. It could even be argued that the sister was eventually paid, through inheritance.

It is wise to ask questions when you first hear that there has been an overpayment and money is to be returned, but there isn't a way out of not paying it back. Your mum received money she was not entitled to.

Hopefully, they will take it from the sale of the house.

Please get your facts right. The limit for over 60's is £10,000, not £6,000 and there is no upper limit.
And the reduction is £1 for every £500, not £250!

pipkin71

bengal-stripe wrote: »

That limit was raised to £ 10,000 for the over sixties in Nov. 2009. For them the reduction by £1 per week is for every £500 in savings.

Also the OP's mother would (probably) have been on an ‘Assessed Income Period’ where she would not have to report any additional savings for up to five years.

http://www.saga.co.uk/money/pensions/savings-and-pension-credit.asp

Yes, of course it was, bengal-stripe, thank you for pointing it out. I had forgotten that the limit for over 60s had been raised.

diolch

Tehya wrote: »

Why do people assume it's selfish not to leave money behind for others. If I have the money when I'm older I'm off on an around the world cruise with my hubby. If there's aything left after that i.e. proerty then family will be welcome to it.

My son (whom I love dearly) can do exactly what we do and provide for himself. As he's said himself he'd rather see us enjoy it than watch us die without experiencing the world.

Each to their own then.

My wife and I have no hankerings to see the world. We have only been abroad once many years ago to Spain and hated the food and people.

Our enjoyment is the knowing that what we have can make a difference to the lives of our grandchildren in the future.
Even to the point that when my father eventually goes, my 50% share (approx £300,000) of his estate will be split 50/50 with our two daughters for their benefit and for the benefit of their children.
We have no need of the money, we would not know what to spend it on.
Everything I have worked for in my life since we had the children 31 years ago, was for them. They have had everything they have asked for. New car on their 18th tied with a pink ribbon, deposit for their homes, private education right down to the clothes etc for the grandchildren.

As I said each to their own, but we both have always put them before ourselves and enjoyed it enormously.

allen35

pipkin71 wrote: »

As the DWP have contacted you, it would seem that your mother was in receipt, at one point, of means tested benefits.

With regards savings when in receipt of means tested benefits, once a claimant goes above £6,000, benefits are reduced by £1 for every £250 saved. Once savings reach £16,000, the claimant is no longer entitled to means tested benefits.

You need to go through statements to see when your mother went over both the £6,000 and £16,000 totals, also, exactly what benefits she was claiming and when.

The fact that your mother is said to have told your sister she would pay her, will have no bearing on the repayment. There is no proof that this was indeed said and in any event, payment should have been made at the tim, if it was indeed to be made. It could even be argued that the sister was eventually paid, through inheritance.

It is wise to ask questions when you first hear that there has been an overpayment and money is to be returned, but there isn't a way out of not paying it back. Your mum received money she was not entitled to.

Hopefully, they will take it from the sale of the house.

It's actually £10,000 disregard for persons of pensionable age and no upper limit and benefit is reduced by £1 per £500 over the disregarded income so regardless of what people think the OP's mum was probably still entitled to means tested benefit even with £20,000 savings.

OP, i would try and get bank statements that date back to when your mum reached £10,000 and get advice on the over payment or ask the DWP for a breakdown once they've scrutinised the statements.

The overpayment could be as small as £1,000 if your mum was saving the majority of her income over the past couple of years of her life.

My nan had the same problem when she was ill, she actually wanted to give her backdated DLA and SDP back, it made her ill receiving close on £3,500 but she decided to put money she didn't need into her grandkids accounts on a weekly basis which was her choice.

I hope this horrible thing is resolved quickly so you can grieve for your mum without this hinderance.

Hawkeye4aneye

pipkin71 wrote: »

As the DWP have contacted you, it would seem that your mother was in receipt, at one point, of means tested benefits.

With regards savings when in receipt of means tested benefits, once a claimant goes above £6,000, benefits are reduced by £1 for every £250 saved. Once savings reach £16,000, the claimant is no longer entitled to means tested benefits.

You need to go through statements to see when your mother went over both the £6,000 and £16,000 totals, also, exactly what benefits she was claiming and when.

The fact that your mother is said to have told your sister she would pay her, will have no bearing on the repayment. There is no proof that this was indeed said and in any event, payment should have been made at the tim, if it was indeed to be made. It could even be argued that the sister was eventually paid, through inheritance.

It is wise to ask questions when you first hear that there has been an overpayment and money is to be returned, but there isn't a way out of not paying it back. Your mum received money she was not entitled to.

Hopefully, they will take it from the sale of the house.

Well pipkin you said a lot of things I was about to say myself.

I have dealt with a number of Estates over the years and the dreaded DWP letter comes in a large number of estates but usually it's because the DWP want you to detail the total assets that are shown on the Probate. This means as in this case that the savings have come to light as the figure for this was included in the Probate form. As pipkin mentions the point when your mother went above those limits (as adjusted by bengal-stripe and allen35) as mentioned above is relevant.

I had a few cases where a similar thing happened and we had to obtain copy bank statements (which the bank charged for!) from all the deceased's accounts for the period just prior to the date the deceased exceeded the lower limit to the date of death. These statements were sent to the DWP who went through them and sent a demand for the sum they considered was overpaid benefit which then became payable from the deceased estate. I checked the demand, which had a supporting schedule detailing exactly how it was made up, and made a couple of slight amendments that the DWP agreed and then I paid the sum from the estate. This is why it is not a good idea to pay out to the beneficiaries too early. I would think that the DWP will agree to wait until the property is sold, however it is the Executors personal responsibility and the DWP could ask for the payment of the overpaid amount from them direct.

I would not worry that they are making a demand as it happens all the time. In the cases I dealt with the relatives concerned were as shocked as the OP was, they had no idea savings of the amounts involved existed in their relatives name. They also thought their relative had been living in a frugal manner, which a lot of elderly people do as it's a cultural thing not to spend when they don't need to.The forms to complete are confusing and an elderly person will often just sign and not realise they could be committing fraud. I am sure in this case, as in many many others, that your mother did not realise the implications.

I hope that you get the extra time to pay back, but pay back is what you have to do, although of course only pay back the correct amount worked out correctly.

Beltup

Thankyou, to the last few posters in particular.

Is interest charged on any overpayments?

margaretclare

diolch wrote: »

You have basically answered the question of how it can be done!
If you were on a means tested benefits you would not have a council tax bill. That makes your bills £227. Including in that is the car loan, car insurance, car tax and all of the other running costs which can easily be cleared to 0 if you sell the car and use public transport via your bus passes!
How much does that leave?
Food & petrol. Without a car you wouldn't need to buy petrol.
And I am sure that you could find a way of reducing your food costs as well.


Then we have more wasted money - a holiday. How many people on a means tested benefit can afford that?

With all of those little things removed I am very sure even you could manage on £100 per week!


That is a little selfish don't you think? Maybe an inheritance could help your children and grandchildren get on in the world. Most, I would think, would want to spoil their offspring and be happy that a little extra when you go would go a long way.

I never said we were on means-tested benefits and your post did not imply that to be the case. You wrote 'a couple aged 70 could easily live on £100 a week'. You didn't add 'if they are on means-tested benefits, run no car, never have a holiday' but prefer to save to leave money behind'. From your reply, that is what you assume and what you think we should do.

Spoil my offspring? Why? The surviving ones are doing fine without my assistance. I won't even mention the total silence from them when it comes to Christmas, birthdays and any other day in the year.

I already 'help my grandchildren get on in the world' as and when I can, giving them help when they need it rather than having to wait until I'm dead. DH's family are already doing fine and need no help from us. He is justly proud of the 2 granddaughters with scholarships to public school. We help when required, looking after their little dog when they go on ski-ing holidays.

I have no bus pass. DH could not use a bus pass because the bus stop is too far away and it is painful for him. Having a car is our choice and enables us to live as we want to live. We'd be housebound without it.

We're not rich but neither are we poor. We don't have to live on means-tested benefits. I grew up in the direst poverty and have no wish to return to that state of affairs. Everyone around us was poor when I was growing up, and they still managed to look down on and sneer at my unmarried mum and me. Not any more.

No, we could not cut the food bill down any further than it is. We shop very carefully, but food costs what it costs, and it costs more than it did a year ago. The cost of transport is a factor in increased food costs. In fact, without a car we shouldn't even be able to get to the shops! So do not talk silly to me about how little we could live on, just so that we could 'spoil the offspring and leave a little when we go'.