Deceased mother didn't declare all her savings!

dtaylor21184

My Nan is just the same she has plenty of cash put aside to leave when she has gone but still insists on living on the bare minimum and saves a bit from her pension whenever she needs something instead of using the money she has put aside cos she wants to leave my mum and uncle money and me and my sisters but the truth is and I have told her repeatedly that I don't want any of her money at the expense of her not having things she needs I told her to blow it all on a holiday if she really wants it's her money. She's never even been abroad.

It's definitely a generation thing.

margaretclare

Also, AA is not treated as income for means tested benefits, but I have no idea whether it is also disregarded when calculating capital if it accrues in the bank. It might be worth exploring this, as if it could be shown that £xxxx of the savings were AA you could argue that this should not be treated as capital. (**Disclaimer: I have no idea whether this would work - it probably won't - but worth asking.**

Can't see how money in the bank, when it forms part of a savings or other account, can be 'chased up' and questioned 'where did it come from?'

'A couple aged 70 could, if they wished, live on £100 a week'.

We're in our mid-70s. Over a month our expenditure on household bills, including council tax, is £340. The same amount for food and petrol. £680 a month. That's £156 a week. Can't get it below that. Council tax alone is £113 a month. This doesn't, however, take into account anything else apart from household bills, food and petrol. There are other things in life apart from just the basics.

Incidentally, I'm still saving. I've been asked many times 'what are you saving FOR?' Just because the future is unknown and unknowable and we just have no idea what we may need in time to come. DH has been saving, but he's also paying off a bank loan from when we changed the car and we have a holiday coming up next month.

I am certainly not saving to 'leave it behind me for others'. Perish the thought!

rogerblack

Mojisola wrote: »

I think capital is capital - it doesn't matter where it's come from.

Not quite - there are some sources which are exempt.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch52.pdf - taking the ESA capital rules - as I have them open.

"backpay of ISA/AA" - see 52495 - this is exempt from the capital rules for 12 months from the date of the payment.

Assuming no savings at the beginning, before the ISA/AA backpay, then that capital is disregarded for 12 months.
Over these 12 months - if saving (though some was saving for another person, this will not be arguable probably even if it was writing), saving 65/week would mean that at the end of that period you'd have over 6K in total, and that it would then start to affect the benefit.

I have not investigated in detail, but I would investigate if it's possible to put the estate back in the position it would have been if she'd reported week-by-week her savings to the DWP.

For example, saving at 62.50/week- week 0 savings of 5999.99 - nothing happens.
Week 4 - savings of 250 in excess of the limit reduce benefit by two pounds a week - saving rate decreases to 60.50/week, as spending remains constant.
Week 8 - savings of 492, saving at 60.50/week
Week 12 - savings of ...
If benefit reduces by two pounds/week for every 250 pounds over the 6K limit, and savings are 70/week reduced as benefit drops - then total savings would I think in the long term hit the 16K limit.

In the short term, the benefit drops by 50p/week - meaning that if it carried on dropping at this rate, it'd hit the amount at which savings was 0 in 140 weeks.
In reality, the growth will slow lots after the 90th week or so.

I haven't done the numbers in detail - as I've no idea if this is allowable.

In short - what would the financial position be if every week, she spent as she did, and reported her capital to the DWP, with her putting away the remainder in savings.
This would of course be entirely allowable under the regs.
I don't know if it's an argument that would work to reduce the overpayment demand. It would seem worth a try, but you need someone clued up on benefit law.

Beltup

pipkin71 wrote: »

Hopefully you will have told your mum to turn the heat up as the grandchildren do not need her winter fuel payment, given the luxurious childhood they are living anyway.

Had your mum not wanted to listen to that, you would have hopefully turned the heat up and paid her heating bill for her, given the luxurious life you are currently living

Yes and I could have handcuffed her to the settee so she couldn't turn it back down again but I chose not to.

Why do you assume that I had the resources to pay her fuel bill and was living a luxurious life at the time of her need?;)

Beltup

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

If your mother had "wealth" to leave, she shouldn't have been receiving Income Support and, actually, I can't see anything you've written that would imply that she was eligible for this.

Do we have a double act here?

She was assessed for and received support that she was fully entitled to, but I will have to check exactly what she was receiving.

If you too would like to refer to my opening post you will see that I said we need to find out how she accumulated more than she had when first assessed.

Beltup

Surely any caring children would not let their parent without central heating if they had the money to afford it so they could put money aside.

Unfortunately FBaby we were brought up to respect our parents wishes and not to dictate what temperature she should have her home at. Respect your elders I think they call it.

It has only come to light after her death that she didn't use the payments and she lived quite comfortably i'll thankyou to know.

If my mother/grand mother was living in a standard below what the governement considers minimum to live on, so that they could save for myself and siblings, i would be horrified and would make sure she spent her money for her well-being... T

Yes mum had a name for people like you.............Bossy;)

margaretclare

Incidentally, even 'elderly parents' are adults with minds of their own. If someone chooses to dress out of charity shops and all the rest, it is a free country. BTW one can find real bargains in charity shops if you live in a decent area. I've recently found an all-leather Valentino Italian handbag in our local one.

Not like jumble sales!

If anyone told me what to do/how to live they'd get a very big flea in the ear and would not come back for more.

wearside_2

Beltup wrote: »

Do we have a double act here?

She was assessed for and received support that she was fully entitled to, but I will have to check exactly what she was receiving.

If you too would like to refer to my opening post you will see that I said we need to find out how she accumulated more than she had when first assessed.

You have certainly opened up a good discussion following your initial post!

Any overpayment, which will obviously be the means tested benefit only be it Income Support or Pension Credit will be calculated weekly based on the income rules at the time. Obviously from what you say both your mum and yourself are honest people and if any overpayment has occurred you will pay it back.

I must have lost count the number of similar cases I know about similar to yours. A favourite reply to the question "Do you have any savings" is "No, only my burial money". Can I see the book/statement please? Oh there is £10,000 in the account.(What sort of funeral were you going to have!!).

Why oh why do the claimants not spend their entitlement? It's never going to stop and would leave it easier for the executor to deal with.

Mojisola

diolch wrote: »

Did they spend it all or maybe they kept a bit back for a rainy day?

They'd never spend it all! Growing up during the depression in the 1920s and managing on very little during the war has made them very frugal.

They have pre-paid for their funerals and have saved so that they could buy things like a stairlift when they needed it instead of waiting for a year to get it from the council. The extra money has given them some freedom and eased the worry of having to watch where every penny went.

margaretclare

Mojisola wrote: »

They'd never spend it all! Growing up during the depression in the 1920s and managing on very little during the war has made them very frugal.

They have pre-paid for their funerals and have saved so that they could buy things like a stairlift when they needed it instead of waiting for a year to get it from the council. The extra money has given them some freedom and eased the worry of having to watch where every penny went.

Exactly. I'm of the same mind, although a little bit later than the 1920s. I was taught to save the day I first started school, by taking a few pennies to the school branch of a national bank, pennies in a hand-stitched bag and which my family could ill-afford. The Battle of Britain was still raging and I was 5.

Instead of a stair-lift, I had to get the shower re-done in the autumn of 2008 when DH almost lost his leg. I should have hated to go cap-in-hand to anyone for help.

I haven't pre-paid funerals, though - haven't quite gone that far! But I almost had to plan DH's funeral and was glad I had enough savings to be able to have the funeral(s) we'd said we wanted.