New speed cameras?

arkonite_babe

Please be nice to all MoneySavers.

That’s the forum motto. Remember the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue

x12yhp

Bigbrotheriswatching wrote: »

And tell me, the MPs and Councilors that stand and support me on anpr. Are they also fools? When they ask questions in parliament about anpr are they fools?

Oh come on. Are we to micro-manage everything? Really, you just are pee'd off that you are not in charge. You want to be, so that you can do it your own way.

As with almost everything, policing has general oversight and should, beyond that, be managed by those who know about it; the police. This is exactly how it works. Politicians support the police. By extension, they support the decisions made within the police. No one is saying that this is perfect but there is reason for it - we have no better alternative. If it was possible that we could all have a say in every decision then we would have a more fair system... but we all have lives and would not be able to live them if we had to do this. So we elect people who we are supposed to trust and they deal with many of these things on our behalf. Those people cannot deal with everything so they have people who report to them who are expected to be capable of independent decision making within their own remit. They have people who do the same and so on. That is how the world works. No one is saying that it always comes up with the best or most popular results, but there is no choice.

Maybe we should spend money on some sort of neural implant that lets us all communicate very rapidly... then maybe we can ensure that all decisions are taken as a collective mind as opposed to a distributed one... but you won't like this either because the collective mind is going to be one where there is much much much less privacy to the individual.

Really, the views on privacy I can understand (if not agree with) but there is just a total lack of underlying sense to the thoughts. You basically disagree with the entire system in place but the apparent solutions to the problem will probably be worse than what we have or would end up in anarchy.

one2escape

Went to Omagh and to the Folk Park there and passed loads of these cameras. What do these cameras do? Are they speed cameras or "just" watching out movements? Made me feel really paranoid to the point of thinking Im not going back down that way!

x12yhp

They do not do your speed. So unless you have some reason that you don't want the police knowing what part of the country your car is in... you don't have any issue.

steveymp

one2escape wrote: »

Went to Omagh and to the Folk Park there and passed loads of these cameras. What do these cameras do? Are they speed cameras or "just" watching out movements? Made me feel really paranoid to the point of thinking Im not going back down that way!

They have sprung up all over the north west in the past few months, almost every major route and city/town has them now, they will probably continue to multiply. When they start dragging me out of the car and taking and storing a DNA sample from me I'll start to worry:rotfl: until then all law abiding citizens of our wee country have nothing to fear from them.

D.A.

steveymp wrote: »

They have sprung up all over the north west in the past few months, almost every major route and city/town has them now, they will probably continue to multiply. When they start dragging me out of the car and taking and storing a DNA sample from me I'll start to worry:rotfl: until then all law abiding citizens of our wee country have nothing to fear from them.

Like this guy?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/03/protester-sue-police-secret-surveillance

Bigbrotheriswatching

x12yhp wrote: »

Oh come on. Are we to micro-manage everything? Really, you just are pee'd off that you are not in charge. You want to be, so that you can do it your own way.

As with almost everything, policing has general oversight and should, beyond that, be managed by those who know about it; the police. This is exactly how it works. Politicians support the police. By extension, they support the decisions made within the police. No one is saying that this is perfect but there is reason for it - we have no better alternative. If it was possible that we could all have a say in every decision then we would have a more fair system... but we all have lives and would not be able to live them if we had to do this. So we elect people who we are supposed to trust and they deal with many of these things on our behalf. Those people cannot deal with everything so they have people who report to them who are expected to be capable of independent decision making within their own remit. They have people who do the same and so on. That is how the world works. No one is saying that it always comes up with the best or most popular results, but there is no choice.

Maybe we should spend money on some sort of neural implant that lets us all communicate very rapidly... then maybe we can ensure that all decisions are taken as a collective mind as opposed to a distributed one... but you won't like this either because the collective mind is going to be one where there is much much much less privacy to the individual.

Really, the views on privacy I can understand (if not agree with) but there is just a total lack of underlying sense to the thoughts. You basically disagree with the entire system in place but the apparent solutions to the problem will probably be worse than what we have or would end up in anarchy.

Let me assure you i am not pee'd of that i am not in charge. The last thing i would want to be is "in charge" and I know exactly how things work.

I dont think you are quite grabbing the situation here.

These cameras were initially brought in as a pilot scheme in 2004. It was promised that it would not go beyond that pilot unless and until there was a "Parliamentary debate". This has never happened.

What we are asking for here is more openness, accountability and safeguards put in place regarding anpr. I already listed recommendations made by the Australian parliament did you think those were unreasonable recommendations?

Do you think its an unreasonable to request that regulation be put in place? The home secretary Theresa May doesnt think so, indeed she already has a review underway....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10504653


Maybe your happy to continue with no regulation, or safeguards in place. If you are i would love to know why that would be.

x12yhp

Bigbrotheriswatching wrote: »

Let me assure you i am not pee'd of that i am not in charge. The last thing i would want to be is "in charge" and I know exactly how things work.

I dont think you are quite grabbing the situation here.

These cameras were initially brought in as a pilot scheme in 2004. It was promised that it would not go beyond that pilot unless and until there was a "Parliamentary debate". This has never happened.

What we are asking for here is more openness, accountability and safeguards put in place regarding anpr. I already listed recommendations made by the Australian parliament did you think those were unreasonable recommendations?

Do you think its an unreasonable to request that regulation be put in place? The home secretary Theresa May doesnt think so, indeed she already has a review underway....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10504653


Maybe your happy to continue with no regulation, or safeguards in place. If you are i would love to know why that would be.

But you DO want to get your way. You are not standing against cameras, you are standing in the way of any form of monitoring, irrelevant of whether it is good or not. You joined this forum and chose your name specifically to take part in this debate. It is not about cameras for you. You have an agenda and you are investing an awful lot of time. So there is no point pretending you are just a decent person who is bugged simply by a few ANPR cameras.

To answer your points, I do grasp the situation and I strongly suspect I have insights you do not.

Northern Ireland is not Australia - why would you even bring this up?! Just because pedigree chum is great for your labrador, does not make it good for your Persian cat!

Then we have something has happened against what was initially stated in parliament. You are just right. We should stop everything and spend a whole lot more money to find a fall guy because this is utterly unacceptable. We all know this sort of thing never ever happens so we should fall like a tonne of bricks on this isolated, near on freak, incident.... :rotfl:

Now my happiness with the whole situation... well you are worried. Well lets just see how happy you are if you get the whole thing into parliament and it passes! All of a sudden you have a system which is policing based, almost exclusively, and you turn it into a full on public system which is much more widespread and much much more open to abuse. You may succeed in your 'agenda' but you are also risking making it a whole lot worse for yourself. Why am I not concerned... well frankly I don't care who knows my movements. If you really want, I will start a thread for you alone, and let you know just where I am and when. I don't give a damn. Nor do a great many others... who needs cameras when half the population happily tweets their private information?

At the end of the day, however, Northern Ireland will be policed or it will fall into anarchy. At the moment, it is somewhat obvious and our police are generally very successful. If you inhibit them, one of two things will happen.

1) Crime gets worse
2) They keep watching you anyway, covertly, and you will be utterly powerless.

Bigbrotheriswatching

x12yhp wrote: »

But you DO want to get your way. You are not standing against cameras, you are standing in the way of any form of monitoring, irrelevant of whether it is good or not. You joined this forum and chose your name specifically to take part in this debate. It is not about cameras for you. You have an agenda and you are investing an awful lot of time. So there is no point pretending you are just a decent person who is bugged simply by a few ANPR cameras.

To answer your points, I do grasp the situation and I strongly suspect I have insights you do not.

Northern Ireland is not Australia - why would you even bring this up?! Just because pedigree chum is great for your labrador, does not make it good for your Persian cat!

Then we have something has happened against what was initially stated in parliament. You are just right. We should stop everything and spend a whole lot more money to find a fall guy because this is utterly unacceptable. We all know this sort of thing never ever happens so we should fall like a tonne of bricks on this isolated, near on freak, incident.... :rotfl:

Now my happiness with the whole situation... well you are worried. Well lets just see how happy you are if you get the whole thing into parliament and it passes! All of a sudden you have a system which is policing based, almost exclusively, and you turn it into a full on public system which is much more widespread and much much more open to abuse. You may succeed in your 'agenda' but you are also risking making it a whole lot worse for yourself. Why am I not concerned... well frankly I don't care who knows my movements. If you really want, I will start a thread for you alone, and let you know just where I am and when. I don't give a damn. Nor do a great many others... who needs cameras when half the population happily tweets their private information?

At the end of the day, however, Northern Ireland will be policed or it will fall into anarchy. At the moment, it is somewhat obvious and our police are generally very successful. If you inhibit them, one of two things will happen.

1) Crime gets worse
2) They keep watching you anyway, covertly, and you will be utterly powerless.

If i did want my own way i would be asking for these to be chopped down, but i am not am being reasonable asking for proper regulation and safeguards to be put in place. I have no "agenda". It wasnt me who started this thread and it wasnt me who drew attention to the campaign.

If your happy to be monitored as you go about you daily life thats fine. Set yourself up a thread and tell all if you wish, thats your choice. Just dont expect that everyone should feel compelled to do the same. People should have the right of personal privacy respected if the wish.

Regarding twitter and any other form of self broadcasting. This is always done with your explicit permission and concent and is in your complete control. There is a distinct difference between this and compulsory mass police monitoring of citizens.



"At the end of the day, however, Northern Ireland will be policed or it will fall into anarchy. At the moment, it is somewhat obvious and our police are generally very successful. If you inhibit them, one of two things will happen.

1) Crime gets worse
2) They keep watching you anyway, covertly, and you will be utterly powerless. "



So you feel that by regulating ANPR that this will somehow cause a surge in crime.

You feel that by regulating ANPR cameras that this society is going to fall into anarchy?

You feel by regulating ANPR that it will inhibit the police?

You feel that if the police dont have full and utter control over ANPR that they will break the law and begin the use of a mass covert surveillance system on its own citizens.?

wdyw

Bigbrotheriswatching wrote: »

If someone steals your car then anpr has not stopped that crime. It will also be of little value in catching the person safely and it most certainly will not stop them from crashing. Therefore there is little benefit to be had from using anpr or not.

Neighbour had his BMW stolen from his driveway. The police had the gang involved locked up within 2 days. The ANPR flagged up the 5 cars either side of his car passing each camera (as told to him by the police) and they were able to figure out what cars were part of the gangs operation and tracked/arrested them.