Car clocking, can it be stopped?

cepheus

jase1 wrote: »

I tend to agree actually -- the problem is that it would be impossible to police. Almost by definition the clocking service providers are "a bit dodgy", so what makes you think they'll obey whatever law comes in?

What would there be to police? The 'clocker' needs to phone the manufacturer or reputable source for a code relating the the registration. A note is then placed on the record for that car. In practice perhaps this could be restricted to dealers, for the small number of genuine adjustments which need to be made.

I suppose a higher value car would have GPS which could record the mileage independently as a check.

jase1

Fair enough, but there are two problems as I see it:

1) It can't be applied retrospectively -- although this isn't a barrier to the introduction of a law.

2) Most codes can be cracked. I have a strong suspicion that within 12 months of any system being implemented, it'll be cracked wide open by the clockers themselves.

Jakg

Most new cars already have fairly hardened mileage storage, many cars (even going back 12 years to things like the Rover 75) have the mileage stored in multiple places.

However theres money in it, and every lock is crackable so the right person, so it will (and does) get broken...

cepheus

jase1 wrote: »

Fair enough, but there are two problems as I see it:

2) Most codes can be cracked. I have a strong suspicion that within 12 months of any system being implemented, it'll be cracked wide open by the clockers themselves.

If they are enough digits and these are randomised I don't see how. You may be able to fake or disengage it I suppose. Unlikely to be worth the trouble if properly backed up with records as suggested above.

jase1

There are people out there who can crack 2048-bit cyphers (and more), it's all a question of finding weaknesses in the algorithm.

j_bailey_3

Like Lum said there are legitimate reasons for mileage correction, such as ECU failure or if you fit a new or different instrument(dial) cluster. Your ECU wont recognise it and it will show that the mileage is wrong until you get it corrected. For this reason it's legal to clock your mileage up but not down. Car documents like your V5 and service history along with dates will help you decide if something seems a little out of the ordinary or not.

Despite what people believe, no matter how more secure are improved or upgraded. Somebody will always eventually crack a way around it. It happens to the largest companies in the world, the car industry wont be different.

cepheus

I think it would probably be a one time pad system like some bank accounts use. If they manage to crack this they won't be bothered with clocking cars, they could just raid your account and buy a car!

At the moment you can pay someone to clock a car for you with readily available software which is ridiculous. They have made it deliberately easy for the reasons you mention. I am saying the number of times a car is illegally clocked far outnumbers a the number of times it needs to be legally clocked, so you make it much harder to do.

We need to get this into perspective, a Ford Focus isn't the Bank of England, we only need to make it reasonably secure.

Lum

cepheus wrote: »

What would there be to police? The 'clocker' needs to phone the manufacturer or reputable source for a code relating the the registration. A note is then placed on the record for that car. In practice perhaps this could be restricted to dealers, for the small number of genuine adjustments which need to be made.

In the case of my grey import example, the manufacturer isn't going to help you.

Edit: Or an old Rover.

Flyboy152

Lum wrote: »

There are legitimate reasons for mileage "correction", for example if a secondhand ECU is fitted from a scrapyard, you'd need to get the mileage corrected to that of the dead ECU. Also some cars will need their mileage correcting if they are imported from a country that uses kilometers, depending on how the speedo conversion is performed.

Under current law, a sticker must be displayed by the odometer if the mileage is known to be incorrect.

Only if the car is being presented for sale.

However, it is not necessary to put sticker on the instrument panel. As long as you tell any prospective purchaser that the mileage is different to that being displayed by the odometer, you will be complying with the law.

cyclonebri1

surely the biggest problem is that there is no mileage check of record for the 1st 3 years of a cars life?

Some system of annual recording at yearly intervals is needed if mileage thieving is to be taken seriously.

Very difficult to tell a 10k from a 100k mile car at 3 years:eek: