What new car to get??

bigjl

jase1 wrote: »

Yes, and conversely I have seen the mess a Primera made in a head-on collision with a 5-star Fiat 500. Neither car was pretty afterwards but the Fiat fared worse.

The relative car masses make a *lot* of difference. Simple physics. The heavier car will impart a greater force on the lighter one than vice-versa.

The test is only part of the story. If I was transporting kids around I wouldn't be putting them in a small car, 5-star or no 5-star.

I wouldn't put them in a 3-star car either, but that is beside the point. Even though the NCAP rating does give you a good idea of a car's safety relative to others in the class, it isn't the whole story -- a smaller car is imparting less force on that deformable concrete block than the larger one is, and so in effect it is easier to gain the star rating in the first place.

You may notice that the cars you mention in the last sentence of your post don't include little city boxes.

"Deformable concrete", eh???


You are overthinking something but starting off with incorrect assumptions, therefore you will always come to an incorrect conclusion.

In a 5 Star NCAP car the force of the impact is sent around the passenger compartment not through it.

So what is a Clio, a limo!

Lets not forget that one of the most dangerous cars in an accident is an old Freelander, 3 Stars, and guaranteed broken legs in almost any crash.


I think you should talk to the people at NCAP, you obviously know so much more than they do, how they got to where they are I don't know, they obviously used Google to pass their exams.

You believe what you want.

After all you seem to have completely misunderstood the concept of the crumple zone, the reason the Primera was damaged to the same degree as the Fiat 500 is due to the 500 transmitting the forces around the passengers, with the crumple zones doing their job of slowing the car gradually, reducing the rate at which the force of the impact was passed onto the occupants.

This is done with different grades of metal.

If an old Primera was deformed to the same extent as a Fiat 500 then my initial assessment would be that the most likely place for the more seriously injured would be in the Primera, the crumple zones are less effective.

The only time to be aware of is when one of the vehicles involved has a seperate chassis, as they don't crumple much, though these older big 4x4's also tend to transmit more force to the occupants.


But, hey what do I know, I just assess patients at the scenes of RTC's for a living. And have been trained to do so by experts, not internet gossip.

Are you for real?

NCAP is wrong? Really.


You do realise that a new Clio weighs almost as much as a ten yr old family saloon?

My Subaru Legacy weighed not as far off two ton as you might think.

mikey72

To be fair though, the new Renault was tested with side body airbags, and side head airbags, to get the stars from the 4 from the old model to the 5 on the new one.

jase1

"Deformable concrete", eh???

OK, immovable concrete block fitted with deformable aluminium barrier. That better?

So, I take it from what you are saying then that you think a small 5-star car will not come off any worse in a collision when hitting a 5-star large car than the latter would?

You must do, if you do not accept that momentum is a factor.

The Primera weighs half as much again as the Fiat does. The Fiat receives more force during the impact than the Nissan does, in contrast to the NCAP test, so its safety features, better though they may be, must work harder to achieve the same result.

The 4-star Primera did indeed make mincemeat of the 5-star Fiat. The Fiat, and its occupants looked very poorly indeed from what I saw.

No-one has said that NCAP is wrong. Indeed the danger comes not from what I am saying, but rather from the belief that just because two cars each have the same NCAP rating that they will perform to an equal standard in the real world.

NCAP themselves agree with what I am saying:

Are large cars safer than small cars?
In frontal impacts between cars, the occupants of the heavier car or the one with higher structures tend to fare better than those travelling in lighter, lower cars. As it is not possible to simulate the influence of mass in a test against a fixed barrier, Euro NCAP recommends comparison only between cars which are of a similar mass (+/- 150kg) and in the same category. Such comparisons allow the relative safety performance of cars to be judged accurately.



Can results be compared between groups?
Accurate comparisons can only be made between cars in the same group. The frontal test mirrors a crash between two cars of similar size. A heavier car or one with a higher structure will tend to have an advantage if it impacts a smaller car. The Euro NCAP results cannot be used to predict the outcome of such crashes.

Give the larger car enough of a weight advantage and it will overcome the safety features of the smaller one. This won't help the occupants of the larger car -- I never said it would, if you actually read what I said -- but it is a reason I take NCAP ratings for smaller cars with a pinch of salt. Fundamentally having more metal around you is good, so if you want to be safe, buy a 5-star Mondeo rather than a 5-star 500. I do not believe the 500 is particularly safe at all.

Chimera

Wow.. big olde discussion going on...

Well, I went to Kia today and did a test drive on the Picanto.. It's ok, but less powerful than my saxo. it got me thinking - I won't have the opportunity again to buy a new car for a long while. They had a showroom car which I kinda fell in love with. It's the Kia Rio 2, 1.4 Petrol. It has all the extras, a/con, central looking, electric windows, ipod cable (lol). It's a lot roomier and comfort doesn't compare... I don't get a choice of colour, but luckily its black - the colour I wanted. 7 year warranty - £8,600. They are holding the offer for me till Friday.. checked insurance, and can get cheaper than I'm currently paying!!! The picanto for 6,670 is really basic, and is good value but feels basic. I think if I get it I'll be kicking myself on not going for the other, and I'm planning on keeping it for a good while si it's big enough and small enough for what I want. I do have enough for it, plus more, so what d'ya think?

Kilty_2

Compare that price with other dealers and online brokers because if they wanted £6670 for the Picanto then the Rio is probably overpriced too

Was it actually the showroom car they were selling you at that price? Brand new or pre-registered? etc.

A Rio Domino comes in at £8208 + £405 for metallic paint at Broadspeed which I believe is a better specced model than the '2'.

Kilty_2

Seems a "Domino" is a "2" in disguise, so ignore me :rotfl:

Kilty_2

THIS (clicky) is the only problem I can see with the Rio. Full 7 year warranty on that car and it's just better through and through.

Chimera

Kilty wrote: »

Compare that price with other dealers and online brokers because if they wanted £6670 for the Picanto then the Rio is probably overpriced too

Was it actually the showroom car they were selling you at that price? Brand new or pre-registered? etc.

A Rio Domino comes in at £8208 + £405 for metallic paint at Broadspeed which I believe is a better specced model than the '2'.[/QUO

Gonna go back in a bit me thinks and get the guy to sell it to me.. The price was £10,250, was reduced to £8,600

Get worried because I don't want to be ripped off.. Did look at vauxhall and skoda as well, but nothing could touch that price or spec

Kilty_2

DON'T be rushed into it because he's said he's "keeping it for you" - as I said you can get the car for that price from other sources so the price isn't "take his arm off now" staggering.

jase1

Just a quick suggestion that you may be interested in... Motorpoint currently have the last remaining stocks of Daihatsus, particularly the Sirion.

These are very, very good little cars, similar to the Suzuki Swift (same platform) and built in Japan by a subsidiary of Toyota. Daihatsu have pulled out of the UK due to the strong Yen but there are many parts shared with Suzukis and small Toyotas (and Daihatsu will probably be back eventually so they won't want to be hacking off their loyal customers with high parts prices), and at £6999 for a brand-new 1.3 I don't see too much that is better value out there at the moment.

http://www.motorpoint.co.uk/%28S%28lx1rzunmlcopdz45to4kvrzm%29%29/Search/VehicleDetails.aspx?vehicle=274222

Indeed it may be worth having a look around that site as they have a few other decent buys on there as well. If I was looking for a new car I'd be tempted by the brand-new, £8000 Chevrolet Epicas -- loads and loads of metal for the money