Problem with sister and child.

heretolearn_2

Very clever children can be difficult to parent and I don't think it's uncommon for them to go through a stage like this.

I feel for all of you, the girl, the brother, you and her mum!

I've got a couple of examples for you, and then a bit of advice:

1) My son is exceedingly clever. He is also quite moody - not tantrums but black moods and strops. While he was always well-behaved otherwise, he went through a stage aged 8-9 when he was rude and cheeky in a smart-alec kind of way, and was very sarcastic. Now, his intelligence and sense of humour were high, but emotionally etc he was just a little boy still, and the two combined to create a bit of a monster - clever and witty, but with no tact, sense of diplomacy or appropriateness! We had to take a strong line with him over this. We still managed to get through 4 after-school minders (they 'resigned') in as many months until I finally found one who was willing to stand up to him! But he grew out of it as his maturity caught up with his big mouth.:rotfl:
So I do have some sympathy for your sister. She is probably well aware of how her daughter behaves but it's hard work. I was also a single parent and sometimes I gave in when I shouldn't have for peace and quiet and just not having the energy to keep it up, normally I was quite strict, but these kids can be very manipulative. Also when they play up in public embarrassment stops you wanting to draw attention to their behaviour. I generally saved my tellings-off till we were back in private. Recently (he is grown up and lovely now) he was laughing over it and saying 'I was so manipulative, wasn't I'. I'm sure I still don't know the half of it.

2) Kids can have different rules in different places. She can behave well with you, she is probably behaving well at school, just because she has mum twisted round her little finger doesn't mean she is doomed to growing up as a horror. The fact that you are concerned about this means that you do care for her, so don't feel bad for disliking her behaviour.

3) Can you sit your sister down and offer her your support in a different way. Right now if she is feeling defensive and criticised, she won't listen to anything. Can you say that you've noticed how clever the girl is and chat generally and nicely about both the kids. Without sounding critical. Then say 'they say gifted children can be quite a struggle to bring up, they can go through a very difficult phase at this age - they are so clever they think they should be treated like adults, but of course they are still immature in how they behave. Phew! Do you think 'X' might be going through that phase now? Poor old you, you are coping very well. Can I help at all? You know, we can talk to her together about setting the same rules for everywhere?

3)

Hectors_House

Zoetoes wrote: »

She's not skinning squirrels or anything! What would you describe it as? The early days of a mass murderer?

How about the early days of a narcissist then?

Does that sound better?

And when she grows up into the type of woman who uses her beauty to get all she wants and has no empathy for the pain she causes everyone that comes into her life it will be too late for her to change.

From what you have described so far the family sound like they are heading for therapy just to stop the boy from really going off the rails and rejecting his mother as he gets older.

I'm sorry if you think this sounds harsh but you seem to be describing a family where the girl can do no wrong and the boy is scapegoated. It may not be that dysfunctional at all but you can already see the problems the imbalance is causing the boy and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

Zoetoes

Hectors_House wrote: »

Zoetoes wrote: »

She's not skinning squirrels or anything! What would you describe it as? The early days of a mass murderer?

How about the early days of a narcissist then?

Does that sound better?

And when she grows up into the type of woman who uses her beauty to get all she wants and has no empathy for the pain she causes everyone that comes into her life it will be too late for her to change.

From what you have described so far the family sound like they are heading for therapy just to stop the boy from really going off the rails and rejecting his mother as he gets older.

I'm sorry if you think this sounds harsh but you seem to be describing a family where the girl can do no wrong and the boy is scapegoated. It may not be that dysfunctional at all but you can already see the problems the imbalance is causing the boy and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

OTT I think.

And we only have OP's side. No disrespect to OP but maybe the sister is getting !!!!!! off at being made to feel like her 7 year old girl is not normal and that OP is 'involving' herself and maybe she feels stuck because she relies on OP to help with childcare?

OP I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm just trying to look at it from all sides, and I think you are really good for helping out the way you do (I don't get that sort of help!) and saying your sister is a great parent.

Maybe the little girl is also unhappy about something?

I agree she needs discipline of course, but I think some of you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

pigpen

Those who have gender assumptions.. as a mum to both genders I find it easier to think of them ALL as children.. not boys or girls just children.. though my boys do display more physical poor behaviour and the girls (part. DD3) it tends to be more verbal/b!tchiness.. they are dealt with/punished according to which child it is rather than their gender. DS1 for example always responded well to praise and attention so we focussed on the good behaviour (which was at times very very difficult), DS2 loses PC time, DD2 just needed a 'telling off' and at 13 she is still the same, DD4 just needed a warning but is now needing a telling off at 8, DD5 has to be physically removed and placed elsewhere.. some children are just more demanding on the whol I have found my girls easier to deal with but then 2 of the boys have ASD's so that could be the reason.

2 of my sisters were absolutely hateful, 1 had a habit of biting.. (she only bit me once and I hit her so hard in response she never did it again!) the 4th sister grew up while I was out playing my youngest brother is vile.. pleasant enough young man but lazy and spoiled and horrid.

swingaloo

Thank you all for the input (some interesting thoughts for me to dwell on).

Just a few things Id like to clear up.

I never critisise my sis or make her feel she isnt managing. I tend to use the 'God your having a sruggle today, let me take them out for a couple of hours' or ' I may be chatting to her and use the 'she's pushing your buttons just have your boundary and stick to it' type of thing. But I never say I dont think I know better, they are her children and I never tell them off in her presence, although I will say things like 'your not being fair to your mum', 'why are you behaving like this etc'. She has told me that when I look after them I am in charge and then its different.

The children dont see me as the 'bossy auntie'. In fact Im what they call thioer 'fun auntie'. We have great times together and as I said before she is a little angel most of the time with me. She knows if I say no I mean it though.

I found out this example last night. - On Saturday sis took her for some new shoes for the summer. The pair she wanted, they didnt have in her size, the ones she tried were a bit tight. Apparently when told she couldnt have them she screamed the shop down and sis was so embarressed that she bought her them to get out of the shop.
Result- One child wins again through being bratty. One mum pays money for shoes that will ne of no use during the summer. When I was told this I turned to niece and said 'Why would you do that to your mum? I would have walked out of the shop and left you'. Niece said 'Because I wanted them'. Sis said ' You dont understand what its like, I should have said no but I just had to get out of the shop'. (At this point in my mind Im thinking - but not saying- I would have dragged the little brat out- but then I realise something else sis has said. She is tiny and cant physically control neice, maybe thats having an impact as well)

I love both children dearly. Mine are grown up and I very often get mistaken for Grandma but thats not a problem, we just find it funny. I never treat them differently in terms of what they get. If I buy for one, I buy for the other. They always get taken out to choose thier birthday presents and I always make sure that we have a day out shopping together when its 'mums birthday' 'xmas' or mothers day' so that they have presents for mum. As I sadi thier dad lives on the other side of the world and makes his contribution on Skype.

He and his new wife think nothing of being critical of thier mum so this undermines her as well even though she has asked him not to do this.

I have never been critical of her (or thier dad) to the children, I always impress on them how much mummy does for them. I once said to them just before the holiday when they were showing me thier new clothes- 'Wow hasnt your mum got you some brill things' Nephews reply- 'This shirt is cool isnt it'. Neices reply 'I want more yet and mum has said I cant take make up on holiday which isnt fair'.

I know there is a difference between boys and girls in that girls are more independent but even though I love them both to bits I hate to have to say it but I dont LIKE neice. Thats a deadful thing to say and thats what upsets me.

poppyolivia

I wouldn't feel bad about not going on holiday can you say you are going with friends this year instead for a change?..or the girls from work...? I couldn't be bothered going on holiday with a little madam like that..I'd rather do without..I'm not spending all that money for a 7 year old telling me when I'm going back to the hotel! Her mother really needs to get a grip! Tell her you will go the following year with her.

poppyolivia

IF you feel you need to go on holiday to give your sis a break I wouldn't be told where I'm going or what I'm doing..yeah plan things and at last minute they change because of behaviour problems then you take your nephew to the original place anyway..I wouldn't be sitting in waiting for niece to calm down etc...her mum can do that..I feel absolutely heart sorry for your nephew... he's the one coming off worst in this.

jellyhead

Good idea ... if you WANT to go then you could say in advance that you might take eldest off to do something more grown up/boyish, because he's getting older. That's the beauty of being on holiday with more than 1 adult, you don't have to spend every minute together and kids of different ages can do what they want if the adults are prepared to separate in order to do that.

I go on holiday with family quite often, and we often separate off because different aged children want to do different things. I will take little ones to the beach while my husband takes older ones to play laser tag, or not everybody wants to go swimming so one of us will take those who want to go etc.

Or, as poppy says just stick to the original plans if youngest starts screaming, leaving her to scream at her mum and the eldest boy still gets to do what was planned.

If you really don't want to go, then don't. I'm not going on the big family holiday this year because all the arguing between the 4 older boys was irritating last year and it felt like WW3 instead of a relaxing holiday.

barbiedoll

The posts regarding the gender differences really struck a chord with me.

Both my sister and I were "bratty" as kids, much more so than my poor brother, who also had to put up with our female cousin, herself not a stranger to outrageous demands and spoilt behaviour!

Unfortunately, your niece is being rewarded for her bad behavour so it will never end unless your sister gets her act together. Not easy as a single parent, I'm sure, but she will have to man up and work out some coping strategies.

For example, if your niece has a screaming fit in a shoe shop, your sis should simply walk out of the shop and leave her there. The worst case scenario is that she will be too embarassed to ever shop there again. Which is no big deal, there are plenty of other shoe shops. I really don't know why people get so embarassed when their kids have a public tantrum, most of us mums have dealt with it in the past and she is likely to get at least one rueful smile from a passer-by with fond memories of her shopping nightmares!

Go on holiday with them, I'm sure that your sister will appreciate a hand with the kids and if you maybe have a word with her beforehand, you can work together on dealing with little madam. Ask her to let you do the disciplining and for her to back you up, no matter what. She knows that her daughter will behave better for you so it should be easier for her to let go of the reins and have you in charge.
Reward her brother's good behaviour but do make sure that you praise her lavishly when she behaves well but ignore any tantrums, demands, and shouting fits. If she kicks off, everyone should just completely ignore her and walk away if possible. No-one should speak to her until she has calmed down. It's the same technique that is used on toddlers, and it works. Kids only create havoc to get attention, if it works, they will do it all the time. It's not rocket science, you just have to let them know who's in charge!

I'm sure that your sister really appreciates your help and your patience with her family, she is very lucky to have you on her side. :T

Nenen

You sound like such a lovely auntie and a very caring sister and are already doing so much more than most people would in your situation. I've been touched by your honesty too and have been racking my brain for a solution to the holiday dilemma.

Maybe, as you get on a lot better with your niece when her mum is not around and your nephew obviously needs some time and attention from you both, one solution could be to say to your sister something along the lines of.... as *nephew's name* is having a few issues at school at the moment, maybe he needs to spend a little bit of special time alone with you but to make it fair to *niece's name* how about we do a rotation this holiday something along the lines of:

Day 1: aunt takes niece to do something special for at least part of the day while mum does something with nephew; (by letting niece go with you first and offering her the chance to do something really special, hopefully she will think she is getting the best deal and she won't sabotage the plan to give your nephew some time alone with his mum - you can always prime nephew beforehand by telling him of your plan to give him some special time with both his mum and you so he doesn't think you are starting to favour his sister now too).

Day 2: swap over - you do something with nephew while mum does something with niece

Day 3: Do something altogether

Day 4: aunt takes niece to do something special for at least part of the day while mum does something with nephew;

Day 5: swap over

Day 6: auntie takes both children out for half the day to give mum some pamper time and then mum takes both children for the other half day to give auntie some pamper time (you'll probably need it by then! )

Day 7: last activity all together before returning home.

Could that work do you think? It might make things a lot nicer for you, give your sister a break and do both the children some good. You might even be able to restore your feelings towards your niece as I know how hard it is to love someone but not like them at the same time.