Problem with sister and child.

swingaloo

I am very close to my sister and her children. She is a single mum who works hard and really does do her best. However her youngest daughter is turning into the child from hell.

She is 7, very bright, clever, pretty and confident.
Basically she is spoilt to death. She controls the house and her mother and brother. I went on holiday with them for a week and she always had the 'first choice of which sunbed', where to sit at mealtimes, where we went in the evening and what time we returned to the hotel. If she said she was tired we went back, she would feign tiredness and yet want to play on her nintendo when we had returned to the hotel.

If she dosnt get her own way she has dreadful tantrums. One night because we laughed at something she had said, she locked herslf in the bathroom even though we were on the last minute to get a table in the restaurant. She stayed ther for nearly 20 mins. I got so annoyed inside and told sis that she should take the eldest to eat and I would sit it out in the hotel room and so when she finally came out of the bathroom she could just go to bed without her evening meal as punishment for hwer behaviour. Sis wouldnt hear of it and so we all ended up waiting and getting to the restaurant on the very last minute when they were taking food away (all inclusive!).

She is rude, cheeky and will respond with 'so what' or 'like I care' when told so. The night she feigned tiredness I told her that I knew she was having us on and she just smiled behind her mums back and said 'I dont care'

I know my sister gives in far too much just for a quiet life but its doing the child no good, she is going to be more of a problem with every year that passes. She is very bright, clever, pretty and seems to excel at everything she does and always 'outdoes' her elder brother.

Ive been asked to go on holiday with them again next year and at the moment I dont think I can do it, I got so angry inside at her her behaviour, and how my sister was handling it.

This is the trouble, sis is very touchy, she is on anti depressants and can be very volotile. I have tried to talk to her about my neices behaviour, (not by criticising her child but by saying I was worried about the impact the behaviour was having on her and how I thought it was making her life hard). The thing is she gets very defensive and I know it wouldnt take much to make her flip and walk away. Im her only support and dont want to fall out as that would help nothing. Inside Im blazing that she is allowing herself to be spoken to and treated as she is by a seven year old. I know if I say too much she will get angry and that will reflect on the older child. She wont hear a word against her darling daughter who she sees as 'strong willed and confident'.

Two days ago she was extremely rude to me, and I mean extremely rude, I was stunned. Her mum told her to 'apologise at once' which she did (and poked her tongue out as she said sorry.) Her mum then said 'Good girl for apologising'.

She knows she can get away with anything is she says sorry afterwards. The eldest child is seeing this happening all the time and does not behave the same way but frequently gets into trouble for things the youngest has done.

She is crafty, decietful and manipulative and Im beginning to dislike her intensley which is a ridiculous thing for an adult to think about a child.

Its getting to the stage where I dont want her round at my house anymore. If I was to be completly straight with sis and tell her all this she would go into one of her 'I can manage on my own, I dont need anyone' stages and she would just keep away and I cant let that happen. I know she needs my support for afterschool care, babysitting etc and has no one els. She would have another breakdown and the eldest child (who confides in me a lot) would suffer.

She will occaisionally sit her daugher down and tell her that her behaviour is 'not acceptable' and that hse will not tolerate it, but she still does.
On the last day of our holiday we were sat having a meal when she told the children how 'proud she was of them and how well behaved they had been on the holiday'.
I was gobsmacked and could see the what the eldest was thinking. He later asked me 'how come we both get told the same when Ive not been naughty and shes been in trouble every day?).

I really hate seeing whats happening to sis and know it will get worse. She isnt doing the child any favours either, people are not going to like her when she gets older.

Ive tried being subtle and making suggestions in a non critical way but its not working, dont know what to do next but I know she wants to book another holiday and I cant bite my tongue for another week away. Im not prepared to be controlled by a 7 year old. I also know that if I dont go then she wont book as she says she cant manage them on her own.

Thanks for reading what turned into a long post.

Zoetoes

You say you help out by having the children after school etc so you are in charge then and make sure the little girl abides by your rules while you are looking after her, at least she will realise that you won't put up with her behaviour.

It's difficult when you are all together though because if you tell the little girl off while you're sister is there she will probably just see it as interfering?

I think maybe I would just make an excuse about the next holiday, as you say if you have a word with your sister it could just end up with you not seeing each other anymore.

I do understand, and both sides, I have been there!

Nicki

I agree with Zoetoes about having your own expectations of behaviour while you have her after school, and enforcing it by appropriate sanctions.

As for the holiday, you presumably have a while to prepare for this. You might find it better once she knows what your expectations of her behaviour are. You could also preempt some of the behaviour now you know what to expect. So if she gets first choice of sun lounger on the first day, you say then and there that this means the brother gets to choose first where to sit in the restaurant that night, and tomorrow they can swop, bring her DS to the meal with you and if she wants to leave early bring it out and tell her she can play it quietly at the table or in the lobby of visible from the restaurant.

She is still quite young, so whilst brattish behaviour isn't acceptable, you do need to work round it, and make some concessions for the fact that she will probably still get bored by long adult evenings out and needs to be accommodated to an extent.

clearingout

do you have children yourself? It can be galling to have someone without children tell you how you should be doing things! One of my childless friends recently told me I shouldn't be breastfeeding a child with teeth. Grrr!!!! what does she know about bonding with a child or just how flippin' difficult it is to get him to stop when you've got no support?!!!!

I am a single parent of 3. My youngest is going to cause me problems because I love the little mite to death and don't want him to feel any less important than the other two (his dad left me pregnant, has shown little interest in him). He is a toddler and starting to push into stoppy-dom and I know I'm going to have to be hard on myself to manage him appropriately or I'll be creating a monster!

I'm not depressed, nor have been depressed since splitting up wiht my ex husband. But I am well-educated and capable and feel like I can't 'fail' at anything. It's very, very hard to admit when you're struggling (whether that be emotionally, financially, practically or all three) and it must be doubly hard if you have depression diagnosed because there is always that feeling at the back of your mind that you're being judged as a 'single parent' and whether you're 'good enough' - whether you're doing a 'good' or 'bad' job. You just dont' feel that way when you have a partner. As a parent with a husband it never occured to me that anyone could take my children from me - now I worry about me not having ironed the polo shirt this morning being taken as a sign I'm not coping and Social Services might be round tomorrow! It might sound silly, but it is how I feel.

I have found my son's school to be amazing - I have had more than one bursting into tears about one thing or another in front of the teachers. They have been nothing other than supportive, even to the point of finding funding so my middle child can have a few free nursery sessions to give me a bit of a break. They didn't do this because they perceive me as 'struggling', they did it because they recognise that it's hard and they have the ability to take a tiny bit of that stress away from me. They have also had to deal with my ex so they understand (LOL!).

I have no magic answers, I'm afraid. Whatever you say or do, it has the potential to be taken the 'wrong way'. Being a great aunt and supportive sister is probably the best you can do - be there for your sister and make it clear to her that you're never going to judge her or her abilities as a parent. She may well welcome talking about it. Next time there's a parent's evening, perhaps you could ask how it went and see if that's a way of opening the floor to your observations? If the girl is as 'bad' as you describe her, it's hard to imagine she's now aware or worrying about how to deal with it. But if she won't or can't recognise it, there's little you can do. You can insist on your own boundaries when you are with the girl on your own but other than that, I would say biting your tounge and being there for your sister is the most important thing. Hope that helps in some way - probably not!

Mojisola

Unless your sister is going to face up to the reality of the situation, there's very little you can do. It's the same as dealing with an addict - until someone recognises and accepts the truth of the situation, there's no way to initiate changes.

You can try setting your own rules when you care for them but be prepared for your niece to retaliate by telling your sister all sorts of things about you! I feel so sorry for your nephew.

sassyblue

clearingout wrote: »

do you have children yourself? It can be galling to have someone without children tell you how you should be doing things! One of my childless friends recently told me I shouldn't be breastfeeding a child with teeth. Grrr!!!! what does she know about bonding with a child or just how flippin' difficult it is to get him to stop when you've got no support?!!!!

Doesn't matter if you have children or not the OP's neice sounds horribly behaved.

To the OP, you've described my sister and her youngest son a few years ago. She has never knuckled down to deal with him and now he won't work, speaks to her like dirt, expects her to fork out for him as and when he pleases, all this she does for him - with alot of moaning and threatening but never following through with anything! We tried to tell her then but it was anything for a quiet life because he was a demanding little s*d, and yes it's very hard.... my sister was also a single parent, father wasn't interested in dealing with his son and still isn't.

As the others say make sure she follows YOUR rules when she's at your house, and if you're with your sister and she plays up say 'Why do you behave like this for your mum?' or 'do you think people like you when you behave like this?' - there's ways of saying things so your neice stops to think about her behaviour....

TBH it sounds like she's attention seeking, maybe your sister works too hard and this is your neices way of getting attention? (it was for me when l was a kid my mum had 4 and worked full-time ).

Hopefully she will grow out of it, some of this is normal behaviour anyway but she must grow up learning respect at some point.

Continue praising your nephew, if you have to play him off against her l would too.... 'this is a great game isn't it (to your nephew), do you want to join in (your neice) or shall we carry on ignoring your strop?'. Then praise her when she does join in and forgets her strop

Even though you haven't got children you can still show your sister how to deal with these problems, l don't mean that in a nasty way but she obviously needs ideas on how to proceed. You don't have to SAY anything just deal with the kids and hope she takes notice of how you behave with them.

Hope that helps.

gratefulforhelp_2

clearingout wrote: »

do you have children yourself? It can be galling to have someone without children tell you how you should be doing things! One of my childless friends recently told me I shouldn't be breastfeeding a child with teeth. Grrr!!!! what does she know about bonding with a child or just how flippin' difficult it is to get him to stop when you've got no support?!!!!

Hope you told her to shove her ignorant comments where the sun don't shine?!

OP my SIL is still behaving like this at nearly 50...for the same reasons, she has always got away with it.

If it were me, and I had limited leave and or money for holidays, I should have to shake my head and say more in sorrow than in anger, that I just will not be able to bite my tongue about the way neice behaves.

Then I would leave it at that, and not get drawn into any angry discussions, if your sis asks what you mean, then just say have a think about it and we'll talk about it on x day, or later.

She is a child, and it's not her fault, she behaves this way because it has been accepted, but you're doing her no favours if you collude with your sis in letting the girl think it is acceptable.

Does she not have problems at school?

swingaloo

Thank you for the replies and observations, its good to get others thoughts on this.

Just to address a few of the points raised.

Yes I do have children of my own but as Im the eldest sis by a few years mine are now grown up.

When I look after the children she is no problem, she will have the occasional 'try it on' moment but knows that when I say no its for a reason and she dosnt push it. She is almost angelic, in fact you can put a bet on when her behaviour will change- as mum walks through the door!.

I would never critizise sis directly, she does a great job for the most part. (Her ex husband is now living on the other sideof the world so is no help). I know she works hard to give them the best she can and gets very stressed.

I will always suport her and love the children to bits, saying I wont go on the next holiday isnt really an option I suppose as she wont go without me and I will feel Im spoiling it for her as she deserves a holiday and even though I go as her sister, friend and stand in nanny we do get on well.

I think my biggest concern is for the future, I dont want her to grow into a spoilt brat, she rules the house and gives my sis a hell of a time now and I can only see it getting worse as she grows up.


Another thing which really upsets me-
Her behaviour is also having a very negative effect on the eldest as well. He very often opens up to me about things his sister has done and how he feels. He gets frustrated and then angry and has started to lash out at his sister which is wrong but I can see how she pushes him to the limit. I have told him that whenhe gets so angry at her he must walk away and if he needs to lash out he should punch a pillow but never his sister. My sis is now having him see someone at school over his 'anger issues' which to me is making him feel 'the bad one'.

I have watched his sister deliberatly snap one of her own (new) toys and tell her mum her brother had done it. When I told sis that I had seen her break the toy herself the response was 'She wouldnt break her own toy, she loved it, and L*** was hold of it earlier'.
Result, one child retreating to his room angry at being wrongly accused and one child smirking and crying to mummy to 'buy me another, can I have the purple one next time'.

swingaloo

Just to add,

Ive done the suggested thing of saying to her 'Why do you behave like this for your mum', etc. Thats when my sis gets defensive and tearful and takes it as a reflection of how she is handling things.

I also agree that its an attention thing but NO CHILD in the world gets more attention so it works. The thing is she never lets go of her mum or lets her have a minute. If sis is on the phone she is constantly interupting and will interupt any conversation she may be having with anyone.

Sis dotes on her (and her brother) and even though she works she spends the weekends doing things with the childen. In fact she tries to overcompensate.

She is a good mum and tries so hard for them but daughter is boss, not the mother.
I blame supernanny!!!!!

pigpen

I'd encourage your nephew to tell sis himself how he is being affected by it.

I would also ask her why she is being a brat since her mum came in after school.. sa she had been lovely and was letting her mum down by being horrid.

The toy incident above.. I'd have told neice she is a liar and it is horrible to get her brother in trouble and asked sis if she thought you would lie about it too.

Is it possible your niece wants to see her dad? It can't be easy feeling that rejection and your mum barely coping and a 'bossy aunt' (:p) expecting you to behave yourself.. it must be very confusing for her.

There are ways to get the point across without being too direct.

I'd be tempted to take nephew for treats on his own (what age is he?) so at least his good behaviour is acknowledged and if asked why neice couldn't come sa she had been rude, naughty, etc. when she can be nice you would love to take her.

belfastgirl23

There must be some reason why your sister is treating her two children differently. I know in my dad's family, there were three kids and the middle one felt very pushed out by the youngest being born. the story was that the youngest was spoilt, but years later I realised that the third child was the one that wasn't planned and actually in some ways wasn't wanted. I think my grandmother felt so guilty about that that she overcompensated and the youngest became exactly the sort of child you're talking about here. Could you manage to get to the root of what it is that your sister is trying to achieve by treating them differently? EG does she see herself as a child in her daughter and what she's really trying to do is comfort her own inner child? If she could see what makes her feel the need to indulge one child then it might help her address that??

Not an easy thing to do though I know!