MSE News: Winter fuel payments cut in secret Budget measure

sardine

Money_Saving_Dude wrote: »

Surely the most sensible thing to do is to Nationalise the utilities. It has been nothing but an excuse to push investment onto the many rather using income tax to fund investment, as it used to be done.

Also, a nationalised industry can be controlled by politicians, rather than the markets. Using the markets is fine if they are truly flexible. But as the few companies work in a monopoly where they are effectively a cartel, normal market mechanisms don't work.

The private sector has its place; it's just that that place is not the utilities.

Isn't that a backward step? Been there and done it and it didn't work.

Water Board, Electricity Board, Gas Board etc etc. Why do you think they got rid of them all?

claypath

I think it is an absolute disgrace. Most of these pensioners have worked and cared for their families all of their lives , paid into the system and basically are getting stabbed in the back.This Government is unreal. How many of these golden oldies will die because of this Govenrment's decisions. The saying is true EAT OR HEAT
I am so angry, I bet THEY do not go without!!!!!!

allen35

claypath wrote: »

I think it is an absolute disgrace. Most of these pensioners have worked and cared for their families all of their lives , paid into the system and basically are getting stabbed in the back.This Government is unreal. How many of these golden oldies will die because of this Govenrment's decisions. The saying is true EAT OR HEAT
I am so angry, I bet THEY do not go without!!!!!!

Things are only gonna get worse too, with the rise in state pension age a lot of people will be excluded form these payments and the proposed changes in disability benefits (mobility) affect the older generation more so than ever.

I don't like the scenario of a 66 year old couple living on the equivalent of £102 per week having to attend a jobcentre to prove what they've been doing to find work. Very very scary!!

Marisco

claypath wrote: »

The saying is true EAT OR HEAT

Have you actually read this thread all through???? Did you not see what some are spending their WFA on?? I really don't think Caribbean cruises, holidays in Spain etc are "eat or heat" is it?? The majority on here seem to be in favour of means testing WFA, that way the money would go to those who need it! Very very few are in favour of scrapping it altogether, most would rather target it to those who need it most. And that includes those of us who receive it!!!

thorsoak

blue_monkey wrote: »

First, to the lady whose electric is £82 a month. What size house are you heating?

If you have a big house then why can you not downsize if you cannot afford fuel to heat a house of that size.......

I WAS heating a house whilst nursing my dying husband - therefore the temperature was at almost hot-house level! Therefore my bills were high - and consequently my DD will be high for the next 9 months.

Your comment about downsizing is as insulting to me as a comment about "why do you have children when you dont work etc etc " would be to a family whose main wage earner has lost a job. For what it is worth, I have downsized - to a bungalow with cavity wall insulation, 10" loft insulation (paid for by us when we moved in) and solar panels.

To misquote a politician : "just pray that you do not become ill, unemployed or old".......

For what it is worth, my OH and I had planned for our retirement, we thought we had planned for a simple retirement ...what we hadn't planned for was his untimely death (after just over 2 years' retirement) from pancreatic cancer. And as I've said previously - I'm getting off my backside and getting back into the workforce.

KimYeovil

Marisco wrote: »

Have you actually read this thread all through???? Did you not see what some are spending their WFA on?? I really don't think Caribbean cruises, holidays in Spain etc are "eat or heat" is it?? The majority on here seem to be in favour of means testing WFA, that way the money would go to those who need it! Very very few are in favour of scrapping it altogether, most would rather target it to those who need it most. And that includes those of us who receive it!!!

I agee with your dismissal of Claypath's nonsense. But the majority here are self-contradictory and wrong. The allowance should be scrapped entirely or it should remain universal at whatever level. The one thing that should never happen is that it should be means-tested. That is a ridiculous solution. Posters like LuLu simultaneously complain about not everyone claiming their dues whilst also calling for more means-testing. Crazy.

Of course, what the means-testers mean, is means-test if I (or those I care about) are below the level but as soon as they realise that they are not as poor as they think they start whining.

And LuLu's call for widows and widowers to have their pensions removed if they happen to have had children is bizarre. Kick them when they're down and in mourning. How horrible.

Marisco

To be fair Thorsoak, I don't think those who suggest downsizing are insulting at all. It seems sensible to me, if anyone has a big house they cannot heat or manage, to move to a smaller property, that costs less and is more manageable. There are many people who rattle around in large properties, unable to heat or maintain them, the houses then fall into disrepair, which they cannot afford to repair, and then things just get worse and worse!

Marisco

KimYeovil wrote: »

Of course, what the means-testers mean, is means-test if I (or those I care about) are below the level but as soon as they realise that they are not as poor as they think they start whining.

Must disagree with you there Kim. I know we'd lose it if it were means tested, however I'm still in favour of it. Ours comes in handy to pay the car tax, but that is not what it's for!!! Some need it, some don't. IMO it's far better to target it to those who need it, to use for what it was intended for.

KimYeovil

Marisco wrote: »

Some need it, some don't. IMO it's far better to target it to those who need it, to use for what it was intended for.

But the point you (and they) are missing is that if means-testing worked every pensioner would receive the current credit. That is, £575 for a single person or £880 for a couple (plus rent paid plus council tax paid). Apparently, not everyone receives this - those who do not receive this now will now receive even less because 'the majority here' don't want them to receive the winter payment.

thorsoak

KimYeovil wrote: »

But the point you (and they) are missing is that if means-testing worked every pensioner would receive the current credit. That is, £575 for a single person or £880 for a couple (plus rent paid plus council tax paid). Apparently, not everyone receives this - those who do not receive this now will now receive even less because 'the majority here' don't want them to receive the winter payment.

You fail to grasp my point : because we used our (taxed) savings/earnings to pay off our mortgage I now have very little savings - and because I have no mortgage, I receive no benefit - NOT THAT I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR IT - and the only council tax relief I receive is the 25% sole resident rebate.

NOT EVERY PENSIONER IS IN RECEIPT OF HOUSING BENEFIT!