Refund/repair costs on used car

Devira77

Hello, I bought a used Renault from a main dealer just over four months ago. Only had 23k on the clock and was in good condition - paid including part-exchange value £5995

I got an advanced warranty with it which ran for four months. The day after this expired I took it in to my local Renault branch for a new side light and washer pump. The mechanic said there was an odd noise from the engine that needed investigation.

Long story short, the camshafts are delaminating and potentially a new engine is needed at a cost of £6k.

Renault have offered to contribute to costs, but nothing's been decided until they know if a new engine is needed. Whatever happens will be a major repair bill. Any advice how to proceed with this? Will the Sale of Goods Act offer any recourse?

Hammyman

Devira77 wrote: »

Long story short, the camshafts are delaminating and potentially a new engine is needed at a cost of £6k.

They're WHAT? "De-laminating". Well as a qualified apprentice trained mechanic that is certainly something I've never heard before. Remould tyres delaminate, camshafts don't basically because they're machined out of a solid lump of metal so there is nothing laminated on them to become de-laminated.

I would suspect they may be worn but more likely the hydraulic lifters are worn however at 23k that is highly unlikely. And that doesn't need a new engine and should be a few hundred quid to fix.

Even if the camshafts need replacing, you're looking at a sub-£500 repair.

Even if you fit a brand new main dealer supplied engine, it should be no more than around £2000-£2500.

If it were me, I'd get a second opinion as personally I think they're talking rubbish. Have you heard any unusual noises?

Under SOGA I'd think you'd be entitled to a refund. Certainly I'd tell them that you want your money back.

Devira77

Hello, thanks for your reply.

The garage (a Renault main dealer) told me that both cam shafts were delaminating. Their exact words. They said that replacing both camshafts may be enough but they're still stripping the engine to investigate further and worst case will be a new engine at total cost £6k. It's a Renault Scenic 1.6 petrol.

I'm not at all car savvy and don't honestly even know what a camshaft is!

The noise that alerted the garage to a problem was a sort of ticking/knocking noise when the engine was running. They pointed out the sound to me and I could hear it, but had previously assumed it was just a normal engine sound.

Tomorrow morning they're hoping to give me a final outcome of their investigations, and what they're prepared to pay in contribution. I just am terrified I'm going to be presented with a big bill.

luap2411

Hi, Only a guess here. But I think camshafts are manufactured with a heat treatment that makes the outside skin harder. possibly what is happening is that the outer casing is breaking up (delaminating)which is causing the engine sound. The particles that have come away from the surface of the cam lobes may have been moved round the engine by the oil flow, and could cause damage elsewhere.

Again only a guess. As the fault happened so close to the end of the warranty maybe Renault will be obliging. If things don't go well I would certainly get a second opinion, make sure you keep records, and don't let the garage throw anything away. remember it's your property.

Dippypud

luap2411 wrote: »

Hi, Only a guess here. But I think camshafts are manufactured with a heat treatment that makes the outside skin harder. possibly what is happening is that the outer casing is breaking up (delaminating)which is causing the engine sound. The particles that have come away from the surface of the cam lobes may have been moved round the engine by the oil flow, and could cause damage elsewhere.

Again only a guess. As the fault happened so close to the end of the warranty maybe Renault will be obliging. If things don't go well I would certainly get a second opinion, make sure you keep records, and don't let the garage throw anything away. remember it's your property.

Would that be a similar process to the old "Tufftride", I remember having a camshaft done to go in a Lotus Cortina, many, many moons ago.:o

Flyboy152

Devira77 wrote: »

Hello, thanks for your reply.

The garage (a Renault main dealer) told me that both cam shafts were delaminating. Their exact words. They said that replacing both camshafts may be enough but they're still stripping the engine to investigate further and worst case will be a new engine at total cost £6k. It's a Renault Scenic 1.6 petrol.

I'm not at all car savvy and don't honestly even know what a camshaft is!

The noise that alerted the garage to a problem was a sort of ticking/knocking noise when the engine was running. They pointed out the sound to me and I could hear it, but had previously assumed it was just a normal engine sound.

Tomorrow morning they're hoping to give me a final outcome of their investigations, and what they're prepared to pay in contribution. I just am terrified I'm going to be presented with a big bill.

Huh :huh:?

TheInsideTrack

So, the car isn't at the dealer you bought it from? Renault aren't going to do anything until it's stripped and the cause has been identified. Unfortunately as the owner, it's only on your say-so that the stripping/investigation can take place. Once the report has been compiled and the cause identified have the dealer contact Renault customer care to discuss the case. Make the dealer you bought the car from aware of the situation as well, so you've got your bases covered.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

cars a write off. demand money back!!! if the surface of the lobes have cracked away thats a process that WOULD have been present at time of purchase, the dont just ship away for no reason one day. for the mechanic to come and tell you this out of goodness of his heart os something that i would be suspicious of.

1. car gets px-ex'd.

2.car gets a look over by said mechanic, said mechanics diagnosis afetr some small investigation, cam lobes cracking sell asap.

3.manager sits on fourcourt for some unsuspecting person to pick it out, or he encourages the buyer to purchase wich short warrenty.

4. manager knows your warrenty wont cover this failure, wear and tear.

5. you take it in, mechanic recognises car, says to manager hey that scenics with the ruined top end is in, manager tell him its worn and needs new engine make a good story up.

6. he tells you, dealer makes 12k from you, he sits looking pretty to boast about it to his higherarchy and youve poaid for the christmas bash this year.

now what you need to do is go back tell them nah! under Sales Of Goods Act this vehicle is not fit for purpose its been 4 months ive owned it under SOGA for the first 6 months anything that is not wear and tear (and the cams i would say are designed to las alot longer) you have to rectify without cost to me or refund me my money, i would rather you refund my money as i have LOST CONFIDENCE in you as a company.

TheInsideTrack

Are you sure it wasn't a camshaft dephaser pulley fault? Causes the Variable Valve Timing to go all to !!!! and makes it sound like a bag of spanners at start up?

Devira77

TheInsideTrack wrote: »

Are you sure it wasn't a camshaft dephaser pulley fault? Causes the Variable Valve Timing to go all to !!!! and makes it sound like a bag of spanners at start up?

After reading up on a few known issues for this engine (1.6 petrol VVT) I wondered the same, particularly as occasionally the car wouldn't start without my giving it a little gas. I'm hoping they'll give me a definitive diagnosis some time this morning!

Devira77

TheInsideTrack wrote: »

So, the car isn't at the dealer you bought it from? Renault aren't going to do anything until it's stripped and the cause has been identified. Unfortunately as the owner, it's only on your say-so that the stripping/investigation can take place. Once the report has been compiled and the cause identified have the dealer contact Renault customer care to discuss the case. Make the dealer you bought the car from aware of the situation as well, so you've got your bases covered.

Thanks for your advice, fortunately I've already spoken with Renault Customer Care and they're fully involved. I'm due to have a baby on Monday and they agreed it wasn't sensible to take the car back to the original (Renault Retail Group) dealer, but rather to my local Renault garage. They've agreed to cover the cost of diagnosis/stripping etc and have said they'll likely cover at least 50% of repairs. Both I and Customer Care have spoken with the original garage on the phone, so hopefully I have my bases covered.

I do wonder about the £6k new engine cost they've quoted. Either they're trying to make me go into early labour or they're hoping just to get more money out of me.

Depending on what I'm told this morning I may well try the SOGA route. I spent all my spare money on this car and can't possibly afford to spend anything significant on it now!

One question though - if by some miracle they offer to put a new engine in at no cost, would this increase or decrease the car's value and resaleability?