ESA Medical - here we go again!

deeplyblue

FTW wrote: »

They may try to stop you from taking notes - posters have recorded instances of this. Or they may state that the notes can't be used for the purposes of an appeal (untrue!).

But you do have the right to take notes, regardless of what they say.

Google 'Atos try to stop you taking notes at WCA' and you'll find an interesting CAG thread which'll go more into detail about that.

You'll also encounter an interesting site called 'Why Wait Forever', and that's worth a read as well.

There is also an absolutely enormous thread on the benefits and work site, recounting the struggle to get the right to record medicals.

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?func=view&catid=13&id=20147

If anyone is interested in this topic it's worth going through the whole thing. It's clear that this matter is still very much "work in progress". One man did manage to get the right to record his medical under sensible conditions. However the official position of ATOS (presumably backed by the DWP) is that you can record your medicals if:

1] You provide professional standard twin-recording equipment, which has been calibrated by a qualified sound engineer immediately prior to the medical, so that one tape can be kept by ATOS/DWP and one given to you.

2] The HCP gives their consent to the recording.

Many benefit claimants will not have the contacts or the money to hire professional kit and a sound engineer for however many hours it may take to get the medical done under these conditions (plus waiting time).

The HCP may not give their consent. Some while ago it was asserted that ATOS had instructed all HCPs to refuse to give their consent to any recording. This may not have been accurate, and may have been withdrawn.

Theoretically the battle fought by tb1uk (see link) established that people can record their medicals. However some people are told that they are not permitted to record the medicals. This is usually just stated as a simple fact, and they just sit there and say "No."

If they do agree, then you may find that the only doctors available are all refusing permission, and your medical will have to be postponed.

If you go in, and then start recording they can/do refuse to proceed until the recording is turned off. If you refuse to proceed unless you are allowed to record, then they can say that you refused to attend the medical. At that point they can reject your claim, and refuse you the right to appeal, because you chose not to attend a medical.

There are ways round this - we think. If you really want to record your medical you should try to arrange this in advance with them. That way - and if you are prepared to fight them - you will have a recording that you can use at appeal.

You can go for hidden recording. It is fairly well established (I think) that you can legally record people without their consent. Again, I think the matter is mentioned in the thread I referenced above. However, if they discover that you are recording secretly ATOS will, they say, terminate the interview immediately and probably say that you had behaved in a way which made it impossible to conduct the interview. Once again, they can reject your claim, and refuse you the right to appeal, because you chose not to attend a medical.

I understand why ATOS do not want you recording - it makes it much harder for them to skew the evidence they are supplying. They have a system where you have the right to check whether the "Health Care Professional" is properly registered. Then you are told that you must not write down their name, or even look too hard at the badge.

It is my opinion that most of the campaign to save DLA is doomed to failure. I have suggested before that disability campaigners should pick on achievable targets. One might the restoration of DLA(M) to people in care homes. Another is to have the right to record the medical established by law, or at least by official DWP policy. I think that this measure would reduce the misreporting of medicals which is one of the issues which comes up in appeals.

One sees why ATOS doesn't like the idea.

healy

FTW wrote: »

My point was that every chance at reconsideration that the DWP could have taken in my own case and others' cases that I know of, they didn't.

If it's getting tedious, then why do you keep replying and hammering away at the same point? Again, no-one's putting a gun to your head.




What's false about it? I notice you've never actually told of your own experience at such assessments.

I will reply to the paragraph you have now added - hardly a typo.

I keep replying because you are giving false information which does not help anyone. As to hammering away at the same point nearly all your posts say to record the medical, I do not think it is necessary to repeat this endlessly.

dmg24

FTW wrote: »

There's no reason to be paranoid via secretly recording. Set the device away in a shirt pocket, and let the medical take its course.

Any 'fear' about that is much more likely to be on the 'doctors' mind than the patient's. The patient has nothing to fear by doing it, and nor can (or should) the patient be penalised for doing so.

I was responding to someone with mental health problems - someone who clearly gets very worried and anxious. To act covertly or dishonestly would cause anxiety to anyone with the slightest bit of integrity, it is not in a normal persons nature to act in that way. For someone who struggles in social situations that anxiety is going to be magnified considerably.

melbi_uk

Thank you

My assessment is on Monday, so a bit late to try and get Gp or hospital to write up some evidence for me.

I don't think I'll attempt to record it but will let my daughter take notes. She can do shorthand so no problem there.

She has already started making notes, in fact she has added to my anxiety this last couple of weeks as she has constantly been noting my behaviour and telling me 'that's another reason why you can't work yet'. There is nothing worse than being made aware of your illness and how it affects you daily.

I have been in emails with a lady from ATOS for the last couple of weeks too, who last week gave me the number to talk to her directly in the hope she can calm me down. Mmmmm! What a lovely gesture but I find it extremely difficult to use the phone.

I had a new 'bad experience' last week, I woke up in the middle of the night panicking because I felt trapped under the duvet. Then last night my husband had to open all the doors and windows as I started to panic and felt trapped inside the house.

I know my anxiety is getting out of hand due to the assessment come Monday and will just be glad to get it over and done with.

I can't thank you all enough for the time you are taking to reply to my posts. Right now I don't think I'd cope if it wasn't for you guys, so a huge thank you. xx

At the moment I cannot even cope with my family, I'm just snapping at them all the time :-(

melbury

healy wrote: »

I would just like to point out to people that the majority of people are treated fairly by the DWP and ATOS (within the rules and regulations) and it is the minority of people who have problems and those are the people who are likely to post on this type of forum. The majority that do not have problems have no reason to post.

As everyone knows the chance of passing an ESA assessment is much lower than the chance of passing an IB assessment so there is no need for Doctors to lie as the majority will fail in any case.

In the past whenever I have suggested that IB assessments were far easier to pass than ESA assessements, I have been completely blown out of the water and told in no uncertain terms that this is rubbish.

However, it seems that many people who are currently on IB are failing the ESA assessments, so surely this is a good thing and means that eventually only the genuinely sick people will get the benefit.

I still think it would make far more sense to concentrate all ATOS efforts on the people who are receiving IB and not the newer cases who are on ESA and have therefore been seen fairly recently.

healy

melbury wrote: »

In the past whenever I have suggested that IB assessments were far easier to pass than ESA assessements, I have been completely blown out of the water and told in no uncertain terms that this is rubbish.

However, it seems that many people who are currently on IB are failing the ESA assessments, so surely this is a good thing and means that eventually only the genuinely sick people will get the benefit.

I still think it would make far more sense to concentrate all ATOS efforts on the people who are receiving IB and not the newer cases who are on ESA and have therefore been seen fairly recently.

I am surprised that you were told that it was rubbish that IB assessments were far easier, we all know that they were.

I think the reason they concentrate on the newer ones is because they have more chance of getting a job whereas the long term claimants have little chance - I am not saying this is right or wrong.

dmg24

melbi_uk wrote: »

Thank you

My assessment is on Monday, so a bit late to try and get Gp or hospital to write up some evidence for me.

I don't think I'll attempt to record it but will let my daughter take notes. She can do shorthand so no problem there.

She has already started making notes, in fact she has added to my anxiety this last couple of weeks as she has constantly been noting my behaviour and telling me 'that's another reason why you can't work yet'. There is nothing worse than being made aware of your illness and how it affects you daily.

I have been in emails with a lady from ATOS for the last couple of weeks too, who last week gave me the number to talk to her directly in the hope she can calm me down. Mmmmm! What a lovely gesture but I find it extremely difficult to use the phone.

I had a new 'bad experience' last week, I woke up in the middle of the night panicking because I felt trapped under the duvet. Then last night my husband had to open all the doors and windows as I started to panic and felt trapped inside the house.

I know my anxiety is getting out of hand due to the assessment come Monday and will just be glad to get it over and done with.

I can't thank you all enough for the time you are taking to reply to my posts. Right now I don't think I'd cope if it wasn't for you guys, so a huge thank you. xx

At the moment I cannot even cope with my family, I'm just snapping at them all the time :-(

Your night incident reminded me of an attack I had recently - I was in bed with a new partner, having a bit of sexytime, and he put the quilt over our heads so I couldn't get out. I completely freaked, fought my way out (he thought I was playing!) and and went to the bathroom. He shouted to ask if I was ok, and all he got back was the sound of me throwing up. Needless to say, he hasn't been back since ... Oops!

dmg24

healy wrote: »

I think the reason they concentrate on the newer ones is because they have more chance of getting a job whereas the long term claimants have little chance - I am not saying this is right or wrong.

That is an interesting perspective - I hadn't looked at it that way.

melbi_uk

If they had left me longer the chances are I would have been back at work anyway. As it is, all this assessment thing has just aggravated my illness and put me back.

I have a history of anxiety and depression and each time I have recovered and got back into employment.

I'm not looking for Atos or DWP (whoever) to find me incapable of work forever, I just need the time to recover from this latest episode, which I will, eventually!

healy

dmg24 wrote: »

Your night incident reminded me of an attack I had recently - I was in bed with a new partner, having a bit of sexytime, and he put the quilt over our heads so I couldn't get out. I completely freaked, fought my way out (he thought I was playing!) and and went to the bathroom. He shouted to ask if I was ok, and all he got back was the sound of me throwing up. Needless to say, he hasn't been back since ... Oops!

Some men as so fussy!