Redundancy Help

geordiepip

Hi Emmzi,

I've read the document on the link. Just so I have this right in my mind - if i agree and start a 4 week trial period, I can then during this time state it isnt suitable for me and the business would then have to offer me redundancy (as this is the only role they can offer me due to internal processes preventing them being able to offer me anything else)?

Also, from a consistency point of view, I know that the business made several other P4's (my current level within our organisation) redundant - although this was several years ago (maybe 5-6 years) and none of these people were offered the same role as me. They were even offered voluntary redundancy. Will something like this inconsistency strengthen my case should they decide to fight this all the way??

Emmzi

you would need an agreement upfront it was a trial and I suggest you get that in writing

you would then have a much stronger case at ET for saying it was unsuitable (if it came to that) because you had at least tried it - and could provide a (sensible factual objective) list of reasons why it was unsuitable based on evidence and observation as opposed to opinion. If you rejected the job on those grounds, as your employer, I'd be looking at your letter, thinking "hmm, expensive ET coming up here, I will offer redundancy".

But then that is me, who knows what yours will do?

You have to let go of what happened 5/6 years ago - you won't get enough evidence of the exact role at the time, you don't have the same skill set as the other people, and businesses are allowed to change their minds. It will sound like an old old moan and won't help your case. Last month, maybe, years ago, no.

Bear in mind an ET can take a long long time to get to a hearing. Do you have money to live on while waiting for that to happen?

geordiepip

Hi,

An update (dont know if this helps). I have found my original contract from when I first joined the company. I have cross-referenced it with a current contract for the grade I work and have found two differences.

The current contract has:

Modification

The Company reserves the right to make reasonable changes to any of your Terms and Conditions of Employment and will notify you in writing of such changes at the earliest opportunity and, in any event, one month before such changes are due to take effect.

and

Business Growth and Performance

Throughout your employment you will use your best endeavours to contribute fully to the success of the Company and use all your abilities to promote its products, services and interests.

which my original contract does not have. As the first is discussing that the company can alter my terms and conditions, does the fact that my contract does not have this include the work I am now carrying out now I am substantive in that position (and that they cannot alter this)?

With the 2nd point it is saying I HAVE to sell as part of my role (and is a huge element of the role I have been offered). Does the fact that my original contract does not have this clause in it mean that this is an 'unreasonable or unsuitable' change for me. The role was never a sales role when I joined the company, but is heavily geared around this now - and this really scares me! I have never done a sales job, nor would I ever apply for one.

I really hope one or both of these clauses can help me in some way....

Please let me know your thoughts...

Emmzi

no, they are offering "suitable alternative employment" not "the same employment."

Best bet is still trial period, I reckon. Then state why it is unsuitable, at length, unemotively.

geordiepip

Hi Emmzi,

I am leaning towards the trial period - however it is massively concerning that if they already view the role as 'suitable', that when I suggest it isnt they will just say tough - resign or continue in the role. I would mainly suggest the sales angle - i am not comfortable in pressuring people into buying products and services just to keep my manager off my back - not because the customer actually wants them. It isnt something i've ever done before and as I said in my last post, would never apply for a role involving sales.

Do you think this would be a suitable reason to end the trial?

zzzLazyDaisy

Emmzi wrote: »

no, they are offering "suitable alternative employment" not "the same employment."

Best bet is still trial period, I reckon. Then state why it is unsuitable, at length, unemotively.

This is good advice. If you refuse the trial and insist on leaving because the offered post is not 'suitable alternative employment' in your view - the tribunal will almost certainly say 'how could you know this, you didn't even try it'.

You also need to consider the terms of your contract very carefully as contracts are often drafted very widely and give the employer quite a lot of latitude. What this means is that if the alternative employment would have fallen broadly within the scope of your contract for your now redundant post, it will be much more difficult for you to argue that this is not suitable alternative employment.

In simple terms, if you have had enough and see an opportunity to leave, that is fine, but the employer is required to look for and offer suitable alternative employment - and if the employee unreasonably refuses this, then the employer is entitled to with-hold the redundancy pay (although in the real world few actually take it that far).

You have a union. Use them.

Emmzi

a suitable reason is not "I don't like."

"Skills the job requires"

a, b,c,d of which I have only A

"skills I demonstrated in my former employment"

w, x, y, z of which the newrole requires only z

Therefore I see only a 25% match in my skill set and so would ask you to reconsider that the job is unsuitable for me.

daisyf_2

thank you everyone as I had my meetings last week and I have got redundancy - although have got to work my full 12 week notice - however, it is absolutely fantastic xxx

thank you so much for all your advice on here about what to do as i was clear and focussed what I had to do xxx

daisyf_2

sorry pip i didnt even get to that stage - I just said that I wanted redundancy and it was accepted - I have been off sick for nearly three months so I think it might it easier...

Now there is talk of me coming back as a consultantxx

geordiepip

rumour has it that a decision will be made by the end of this month. As i'm off work until 3rd may that will be a nice present to go back to if it is indeed true!!

i'll keep you posted on what my uncaring employers decide to do...