Redundancy Help

geordiepip

I was wondering whether some further information I have just remembered would strengthen my case:

Approx 4 years ago I was in a different department within the same company. They too went through a restructure where my position no longer existed - as per my current situation.

On that occasion I was offered redeployment to the team I now work for or redundancy - I was never offered redeployment back to the Position 1 which I am now faced with. I took redeployment as the redundancy offer wasnt worth leaving at that point. This was on the same hours and pay was frozen.

I was redeployed to a position 3 in the structure (as discussed in my original post) and after this I applied and was successful in gaining promotion to the position 4.

I would think that from a consistency point of view this must count for something??

Chartered_Eng

geordiepip wrote: »

I've called the company support helpline and they have stated pretty much the same as me - about the role having to be reasonable & suitable.

They suggested an initial consultation with a solicitor who specialises in employment law, however the couple I phoned said it would cost £198 per hour + VAT. This is a lot of money to pay out bearing in mind I have a family etc and little income.

I guess i'm just nervous about the possibility of going to an employment tribunal and losing as this could cost over £10k which we cannot afford. Part of me is really confident that it would be successful but its a massive risk to take...

If you have legal cover as part of your home or contents insurance then investigate that for a free option for advice. Also don't forget the Citizens Advice Bureau who can put you in touch with a local solicitor for a free or fixed low fee first consultation. At the very least it will ease your mind. I went this route for a quick consultation on a legal problem I had some four years ago and it cost me £45 +VAT and that was in central London.

geordiepip

Hi,

Unfortunately this wasnt something that I took out as part of my home insurance. So guess I need to consider speaking to the CAB.

I would also really appreciate some advice/comments on my last post (r.e. being offered redundancy previously) as this whole situation is causing me some concern.

Thanks

Emmzi

redundancy offer previously has no bearing whatsoever. Niether does lack of career progression, nor place on a pay band, as long as they aren't cutting your wages (without a buy down payment)

you say you have a people focussed role but see no link to customer facing - I see many links

if they are offering a pay freeze, I think you'll have to take the job - I also think they'll se if you will resign off your own back so they don't have to give you a pay out. You would have been better opting for the lesser of the evils when you had the option.

unholyangel

I would really try calling a few more solicitors to find if any will offer a free consultation.

My situation is basically i'm a nightshift worker and my employer is looking to close the office between 12 midnight and 6am mon-fri. As this affects the majority of my shifts (60%) and because the alternative they are offering is dayshifts, my solicitor has advised them it most certainly IS a redundancy situation.

ACAS told me there are 3 ways a employer can vary your contract:
1) If you agree to it
2) If your contract has a clause which permits it*
3) They can dismiss you on the old contract and offer to re-employ you on the new one **

*Even with such a clause, a fundamental change which goes to the heart of the contract - especially if it is unilateral/one-sided - can still be seen as breach of contract
**This may then open them up to unfair dismissal procedures.

geordiepip

ive requested a copy of my contract from my hr team to see what the clauses in it are.

What advice can you offer about the completely different role I am being offered? The role I have been offered is answering phone calls from customers/getting a million sales a week etc, whereas at the moment my current role is coaching the managers of agents who do the work I am being offered!

I have never worked to sales targets in our company and know this would give me huge amounts of stress and very unhappy.

It is also a move back by 3 grades within my current role level. Surely this is something which would deem this offer as not 'reasonable or suitable'.

For the record I want to be in a position to get redundancy. I have worked for my company for many years and feel the time is right to pursue other avenues, so any advice on how I can manipulate the situation to my advantage would be appreciated.

Emmzi

sounds like "those who can't teach.."

if you train it, you should be able to do it.

It seems a reasonable match to me. And it is 3 grades below? Should be a cakewalk. They are freezing your oay so no grade issues. And actually if you have never worked to targets you do not KNOW that they will stress you, you just THINK they will.

No guidance on manipulation. The time to co-operate was much earlier in the process. You didn't, and now there are few choices left, but that is of your own choosing.

I think you have to give it a try. Stop kicking and get on with it.

geordiepip

I simply want to use this opportunity to do something with my career that I have always wanted to do. Being offered a role which i only did for 6 months over 10 years ago is somewhat of a kick in the teeth for all the work I have done in between. Just to clarify - my current role is dicussing personal development with our management and senior management community and coaching them to increase their own effectiveness - it doesnt involve any work with the employees talking to our customers on the phones (which is what I have been offered)

Therefore I mentally decided that I should leave - now why should i resign and get nothing for this? Afterall, my company are doing their upmost to refuse redundancy to everyone in my position (approx 13 people across all three sites) simply to save money. Once in the new role it would only be a matter of time before one stat isnt at the required level and I would be 'managed out' of the business as Ive been in countless disciplinaries at work to know this can be done for ANY person working in our office if someone wants them out enough.

If they had one ounce of morals they would realise that this is an embarrassing offer of employment considering the work I complete on a daily basis. I work to KPI's/targets in my current role - i just know from first hand experience that sales targets is an area not for me!

In our office people who dont contribute (get sales daily) are highlighted and pressured constantly. Managers are regularly shouting across the floors for more sales etc. I have never worked in a sales environment and would never want to. The pressure is tremendous in our office in this area. Getting customers to part with money for products they may (or more likely) may not want is difficult and I have a conscience - unlike the majority of our top sales performers so would feel uneasy pressuring little old ladies and vulnerable customers into parting with more money.

With 2 children and a new mortgage this is a stressful time for us all. I simply want this to turn out best for me - not best for my employer.

I would also add that my current boss is the most demotivating person possible and I have raised 2 grievances over her attitude in the last 12 months. The lack of action over her has caused me to want out - sorry if this has been misinterpreted in some way as monmey grabbing. Its a simple choice between starting back on the bottom rung of a ladder ive spent 10 years climbing or try to get my employers to realise their offer is not suitable or reasonable.

Again I apologise if I came across differently to how I intended.

Emmzi

I think you are missing the point of business.

It is ALL about money. Of course they are going to try and save it. No, they won't act with morals.

Your wishes are directly at odds with your employer and this will turn out badly.

Go see a no win no fee employment solicitor. Their opinion may differ - they may think you have a case. IF they will take it on a NWNF basis you may be in with a shot. If they won't, you'll know it is a very long shot.

With kids and a mortgage however I'd be setting my mind to do well in the new job to keep the bills paid until a better role came along.

chazz123

The situation is simple.

Your job role is being taken away......

You dont want to take a lesser job role/title

Rule 1.

If your job role is being taken away, and you "dont" want to apply for other suitable roles, then you are entitled to redundancy.

Rule 2.

Even if an alternative job role is being offered "you still dont have to take it"

Your employer and many like them try to get away with payouts to long-term and even in some cases short term employees to save them a large "all in one go" pay out.

Now you just tell your employer that you are not interested in any alternative roles on offer, and as such you wish for a redundancy package to be written up.

Your emoloyer must oblige, or he/she is breaking the law despite what they tell you.

I work for the CAB, as a generalist advisor. (my views are my own and do not relate to the CAB in anyway) << thats the legal bit out of the way.

You can make a free impartial appointment with a CAB employment advisor, all free of charge, you do not need to seek a solicitor until such time the CAB advisor would suggest it, but the advisor should be able to handle the situation, and the whole process, there is no reason why not.

Dont listen to the others that are telling you just to take a lesser position, and its not that bad etc etc etc, they are not in your shoes and they dont know you, your life, your situation.

The fact is: Your job role/title is being taken away and that position is to be no-more, thus making the position redundant..... and you do not wish to seek a lesser status, change in hours, or take any alternative job role on offer, and as such wish to be offered a redudancy package.

If they employer does not oblige to this request, tell them you are to seek professional advice, and go see a CAB employment advisor FREE OF CHARGE!. When you make the appointment at the CAB, you need to state that you want to see the employment advisor, as they have different advisors for different area's, and the generalist advisors that cover everything to a basic level.

Hope that helps somewhat.

P.s

To Emmzi's comment, its not really relevent, as you need and want is redundancy or at least want to see what package they offer then decide.

Regards