can council force sale of Mum's home?

pixelchick10

Soolin really sorry to hear about your dad. We are also getting help from the Alzheimers soc - my mum has dementia and a heart attack and it's reassuring to hear that you found them so useful.

cavework

you can choose a home anywhere .. it does not have to be in the area that is covered by the Counties Social Services, but if they are contributing towards costs , they still have to pay.
We border 2 Counties and when I was getting nowhere with my Dads Social worker at the hospital I did a bit of googling and told her I would be looking at homes in the next County .. suddenly the homes approved by the Local Social Services expanded.
As for NHS Funding?
My Father had a huge stroke aged 87 , before this he was still living with Mum in their own home and still driving.
He was left with vascular Dementia and asphasia. He is doubly incontinent and cannot walk without the aid of 2 people.
He is in a Nursing home but his condition is regarded as being a social problem not medical !:mad:
With regards to the Consultant giving advice re Social Services and the court of protection order being quicker through them?
He/she is not in a position to offer any advice and is talking absolute rubbish.

monkeyspanner

Squoozy wrote: »

The thing about all of this is how stressful it is. I just want Mum to be happy and cared for and to do what she would want to have done if she understood what is happening. I don't even really care about the financial aspect of mum's property etc, its the fact that they are just taking over and just appear to want total control of everything. It feels as if they are taking mum and everything she has away from me, just when I want to be enjoying as much time as I can with her. Its so not fair.

My concern here is that the social services primary concern is to gain control of the property and presumeably sell it to release capital for your Mum's care. Understandably your primary concern is your MUm's welfare and doing what is best for her and what she would want.

The consultant obviously knows what is going on but is trying to avoid being caught up in the argrument.

A rushed sale of the property would not be in your Mum's best interest and if the social services gain control they would effectively have a conflict of interest. There is a perfectly adequate mechanism for the council to finance the care against the value of the property i.e. deferred payments but there are costs for the SS in this funding method in that they cannot charge interest on the deferred payments whilst your mum is alive and they have to find the funds for the care until the property is sold.

IMHO this is a cynical ploy by the SS to avoid having to provide any financial assistance for your mum's care. SS is appropriate as this kind of behaviour by state bodies would have not been out of place in Nazi Germany.

beaujolais-nouveau

monkeyspanner wrote: »

My concern here is that the social services primary concern is to gain control of the property and presumeably sell it to release capital for your Mum's care.

I agree. I was shocked to read that another key-safe has been installed. If it were me, I am afraid that I would crowbar it off and allow the social services to think that it had been stolen.

monkeyspanner wrote: »

The consultant obviously knows what is going on but is trying to avoid being caught up in the argrument.

If you look at it from the consultant's point of view, he still has to work with these people at the social services.

monkeyspanner wrote: »

A rushed sale of the property would not be in your Mum's best interest and if the social services gain control they would effectively have a conflict of interest.

Which would not keep any of the social services awake at night because, in their "culture", that would be endorsed as "doing the right thing for the patient".

monkeyspanner wrote: »

There is a perfectly adequate mechanism for the council to finance the care against the value of the property i.e. deferred payments

Google "12 week disregard".

monkeyspanner wrote: »

IMHO this is a cynical ploy by the SS to avoid having to provide any financial assistance for your mum's care. SS is appropriate as this kind of behaviour by state bodies would have not been out of place in Nazi Germany.

That is my experience, too.

Squoozy, the social services are not interested in anything but obtaining control of your mother's finances. They may even, as in my mother's case, apply undue influence: my mother was whisked into the care home of the social services' choice so fast that the "licence to occupy" was not signed; when I (as next of kin) refused to sign it because the care home was already sending me invoices (although the 12 week disregard was in place), two well-built male social workers visited my mother in the care home and - with no one else present -made her sign it.

treliac

Squoozy wrote: »

The thing about all of this is how stressful it is. I just want Mum to be happy and cared for and to do what she would want to have done if she understood what is happening. I don't even really care about the financial aspect of mum's property etc, its the fact that they are just taking over and just appear to want total control of everything. It feels as if they are taking mum and everything she has away from me, just when I want to be enjoying as much time as I can with her. Its so not fair.

I am amazed that you are being made to feel so marginal to your mum's care and happiness, when you are surely the most important person to her and she needs you, your love and support.

As her next of kin you are doing all you can to care for her and her best interests. Perhaps you would be able to get advice and support yourself from Carers UK - http://www.carersuk.org/Information and you could find out if there is a locally based carers organisation in your area. Citizens Advice Bureau would no doubt help to find a local service.

Counsel and Care would be well worth contacting too - http://www.counselandcare.org.uk/

You may be able to find some independent advocacy and one of the aforementioned should be able to advise.

I wish you the very best in what you are doing for your mum and do hope you can keep going despite the obstruction.

WhiteHorse

Squoozy wrote: »

However, I have spoken to the consultant, who has agreed that I can go with the solicitor to see Mum next Thursday to ask her for power of attorney.

This reads as if the consultant is trying to block access to your mother. If this is so, then set the solicitor on him. Make a formal complaint against him to the PCT as well.

He said that if she does not sign then, social services will be applying to the court of protection.

This really is none of the consultants business. There is something very wrong here.

I told him that I would like to apply to the court of protection myself, and he said that it would be faster through social services. I have emailed the solicitor to ask her about this, stating that I do want to apply to the court of protection whatever the consultant says.

Yes, apply to the Court of Protection. You must act fast to get ahead of social services. They want the house.

I also asked the consultant about taking mum out, and he said that it was up to social services, not him!! I said that I do not understand this, since mum is not sectioned, but he said that I would need to talk to social services. I then spoke to the social worker, who has said that my sister can take mum out if she signs an agreement to take her back afterwards. I mentioned again that I did not understand this, and she said that if my mum wanted to leave the hopsital, since there is concern about her mental capacity, the doctor would be called and take steps to keep her there. I pointed out that the consultant has said she is fit to sign a power of attorney form, so it does not seem to follow. She didn't seem to know what to say.

This is dreadful but unfortunately, no surprise.

Your solicitor should be instructed to proceed aggressively. Make it clear that you will not tolerate delays.

Both the social worker and the consultant kept repeating that they really do know that as a family we want the best for mum. I find it odd that they say that and then make us feel we have no input into any aspect of her care.

This sort of behaviour is common. Basically, they are on a power trip.

It feels as if they are taking mum and everything she has away from me ...

That's exactly what they are doing. Do not be intimidated by these people. You will have to put the boot in, hard.

Biggles

WhiteHorse wrote: »

This reads as if the consultant is trying to block access to your mother. If this is so, then set the solicitor on him.

No, the consultant is just saying that her mother is fit to sign a Power of Attorney. She needs his agreement or the PoA could be challenged (eg by Soc Servs).

Yes, apply to the Court of Protection. You must act fast to get ahead of social services. They want the house.

No, the OP needs to get a PoA. An application to the CoP would only apply if her mother lacked mental capacity, this is why the consultant's opinion is valuable, Soc Servs cannot apply if she obtains a PoA.

But it's not about who sells the house, care will need to be funded anyway, it's about who looks after her mother's affairs and she would prefer it to be her rather than Soc Servs.

4372

I haven't followed all this but:
Some years ago my dad was going downhill in exactly this way. In the end he was sectioned and ended up in hospital for assessment. Because he was sectioned, the state (local nhs authority) had a duty to look after him. And because he was sectioned no council or other body was able to touch his home or his assets. In time we organised the Court of Protection on his behalf. He is now in a nursing home, with his fees largely paid by the state, and his assets largely intact!!!!

WhiteHorse

Biggles wrote: »

No, the consultant is just saying that her mother is fit to sign a Power of Attorney. She needs his agreement or the PoA could be challenged (eg by Soc Servs).

Agreed, the consultants assistance would be invaluable. However, he appears to be hostile. If he won't co-operate, get a second opinion (privately if necessary), and make a complaint.

No, the OP needs to get a PoA. An application to the CoP would only apply if her mother lacked mental capacity, this is why the consultant's opinion is valuable, Soc Servs cannot apply if she obtains a PoA.

Agreed, a PoA is the first choice. However, it appears that the consultant has in effect already made that decision, hence the advice.

But it's not about who sells the house, care will need to be funded anyway, it's about who looks after her mother's affairs and she would prefer it to be her rather than Soc Servs.

It's about two things, money and control. Social Services have a well developed taste for both.

WhiteHorse

Squoozy:

Try CareAware UK, I have dealt with them in the past and found them very helpful and well informed.

http://www.careaware.co.uk/