can council force sale of Mum's home?

cavework

One other question OP .. were your parents tenants in common?

Squoozy

cavework, in answer to your question, my parents were divorced in 1971 and mum brought us up alone and lived alone after my sister and I left home.

Things have moved on since I last posted and I just wondered if anyone has any more advice they can give me.

I arrived at Mum's last weekend to find that the council had fitted a new keysafe next to the one we had fitted several months ago (which is the police recommended one). They had removed the key from our keysafe. We do not have the combination to the new keysafe, in which presumably they have put the spare key. I do have a key myself and was able to get into the house. Needless to say I was/am furious about this and contacted a solicitor on Monday.

The solicitor has been very helpful and rang the consultant to talk to him about what was going on. The consultant told her that in his opinion Mum might be able to grant us power of attorney, and she arranged to visit Mum this week. Unfortunately, although the solicitor said she had a good conversation with Mum, Mum did not see the need to grant power of attornney, and said she is fully capable of managing her affairs, so she wouldn't sign. The solicitor rang me and suggested that we perhaps go together to see Mum ( so we made an appointment for next week). She said that this often happens and Mum perhaps needs some time to understand what is happening. As a coutesy, the solicitor let the consultant know that she had not been successful but would try again.

Yesterday my brother in law rang the hospital to ask if he and my sister could take mum out when they visit, just to get her out of the hospital to get some fresh air. The hospital said he would have to talk to the social worker, and when he spoke to her she said that the consultant has said that the solicitor did not get power of attorney and that the council will now be applying to the court of protection immediately. She then said the solicitor will not now be able to see Mum again. And she also refused to let my sister take mum out. This all happened at 4.30 pm yesterday. I rang the solicitor and the social worker immediately but couldn't get hold of either of them. I haven't slept all night for worrying. I don't understnd why the hospital and social worker are being so controlling, and why they keep saying different things.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

soolin

I just don't know what to say..I am actually sitting here crying. How dare they refuse permission for your mother to leave the hospital for a short outing.

I cannot offer any useful advice, I'm so sorry but I am so angry that this type of thing continues to happen. As I posted earlier I was threatened and bullied by the health professionals and social services when I went through this with my Dad, everyone told me that I should stand up to them but the reality is they have so much more power than we do, and all we care about is the well being of our parents that we can't think straight.

They just want the money and are terrified that a person may accidentally get free care.

My thoughts are with you

cavework

Squoozy,
Get your solicitor to apply for a Court of Protection order in your favour immediately, ask him if it is possible to fast track the application.
Also contact Age UK.
I would also change the locks on the house .. not sure if this is legal , you would have to ask him.
Off to work but will check how you are doing when I get home.
Hang in there love.
x

Biggles

If the consultant has said that she could grant a power of attorney, the best thing to do is download the forms and go and see her (she would probably respond better to you than to a solicitor, especially if you told her that otherwise the council would act obn her behalf). Have a look at the nearby current thread on 'DIY Power of Attorney' for info.

That will enable you to sell the house (which will have to be done anyway) once you decide your mother won't be able to come home and decide how best to use some of the money to fund your mother's care.

On a side note, how bizarre that they should open the keysafe, remove the key and install a new keysafe beside it, instead of just changing the combination!

soolin

Two other thoughts, get one of the big charities involved, I got a lot of help (including legal help) from the Alzheimers society when I was going through this (even though Dad did not have Alzheimers).

The other thing is start visiting homes, you need to be in a position to have a list of 'good ones' and bad ones. In my own case when it got really nasty they told me that they would temporarily move Dad to a home of their choice that had a failing rating, on the basis that the home was so poor that they always had spaces. I had already checked this particular home out as I had been warned by a member of staff that social services used it, so I was able to tell SS why it was failing and threaten to sue them for negligence if anything happened to Dad while he was there. That did worry them a little and bought me a few more days.

monkeyspanner

I would call the court of protection yourself in parallel with instructing the solicitor. Explain that the council are trying to overide your mums and her familys wishes. That the family wish to manage your mums affairs and that you would oppose any application by the council to gain control. I would also put that in a letter to the court of protection and send it signed for. I would also contact all relevant family members and gain their permission to act on your mums behalf.

Errata

Yesterday my brother in law rang the hospital to ask if he and my sister could take mum out when they visit, just to get her out of the hospital to get some fresh air. The hospital said he would have to talk to the social worker, and when he spoke to her she said that the consultant has said that the solicitor did not get power of attorney and that the council will now be applying to the court of protection immediately. She then said the solicitor will not now be able to see Mum again. And she also refused to let my sister take mum out.
.

Sorry you're having such a difficult time, just wanted to pick up on the bit I've put in bold.
If your mum wanted to leave the hospital for a couple of hours accompanied by a relative, the hospital has no right to prevent her from doing so. Hospitals cannot detain someone against their will unless that person is detained under the mental health act.
I hope I've remembered this correctly: an elderly peson detained under the act is entitled to have all their care home fees paid for them if they are then moved into a care home from the hospital.

Squoozy

Thank you for all your replies. I have been on the phone all morning.

The solicitor is in court today so I have not heard from her. However, I have spoken to the consultant, who has agreed that I can go with the solicitor to see Mum next Thursday to ask her for power of attorney. He said that if she does not sign then, social services will be applying to the court of protection. I told him that I would like to apply to the court of protection myself, and he said that it would be faster through social services. I have emailed the solicitor to ask her about this, stating that I do want to apply to the court of protection whatever the consultant says.

I also asked the consultant about taking mum out, and he said that it was up to social services, not him!! I said that I do not understand this, since mum is not sectioned, but he said that I would need to talk to social services. I then spoke to the social worker, who has said that my sister can take mum out if she signs an agreement to take her back afterwards. I mentioned again that I did not understand this, and she said that if my mum wanted to leave the hopsital, since there is concern about her mental capacity, the doctor would be called and take steps to keep her there. I pointed out that the consultant has said she is fit to sign a power of attorney form, so it does not seem to follow. She didn't seem to know what to say.

I find all of this really strange but as I said I cannot talk to the solicitor yet. However, I am happy that at least Mum can get some time out of the hospital. Both the social worker and the consultant kept repeating that they really do know that as a family we want the best for mum. I find it odd that they say that and then make us feel we have no input into any aspect of her care.

Re the keysafe, yes I find it really bizarre that they put a new one there and didn't just change the combination. I can only think that either they wanted to completely 'own' the keysafe and be able to say they put it there, or some jobsworth person was told to put a keysafe there and was stupid enough not to note there was one there already and go back to whoever told him to put it there and say it wasn't needed. Either way, no-one contacted us about it to aske permission or even inform us what they were doing, and although I have asked for the combination, I am always told someone will ring me back about it. The solicitor was absolutely aghast about it.

The thing about all of this is how stressful it is. I just want Mum to be happy and cared for and to do what she would want to have done if she understood what is happening. I don't even really care about the financial aspect of mum's property etc, its the fact that they are just taking over and just appear to want total control of everything. It feels as if they are taking mum and everything she has away from me, just when I want to be enjoying as much time as I can with her. Its so not fair.

beaujolais-nouveau

Squoozy wrote: »

Both the social worker and the consultant kept repeating that they really do know that as a family we want the best for mum. I find it odd that they say that and then make us feel we have no input into any aspect of her care.

They are playing for time.

Squoozy wrote: »

Re the keysafe, yes I find it really bizarre that they put a new one there ... Either way, no-one contacted us about it to aske permission or even inform us what they were doing, and although I have asked for the combination, I am always told someone will ring me back about it. The solicitor was absolutely aghast about it.

Did they trespass to do this?

Squoozy wrote: »

I don't even really care about the financial aspect of mum's property etc, its the fact that they are just taking over and just appear to want total control of everything. It feels as if they are taking mum and everything she has away from me, just when I want to be enjoying as much time as I can with her. Its so not fair.

The social services and the NHS DO care about the financial aspect of your mother's property, far more than about her best interests. They are terrified that you/your sister will take your mother out and then say that she has discharged herself. Then they'd have to start again with getting control.

I know this is hard to hear but you need to move fast if you are going to remain in charge of what happens to your mother. Back in 2005, we took everything that the social services and NHS were doing on trust, and I now know that they were only interested in her money.