Inheritance: Trying to avoid future problems

clairehi

OP I don't blame you at all for trying to arm yourself with the facts on this. FWIW your mum may have left everything to your dad (did she make a will) but this is standard for husband and wife for IHT purposes so people should not assume that this meant she never wanted her children to benefit from her estate. Youb must be in shock at your dad moving on so quickly and I think RAS's post above lays this out very clearly.

However it is a legitimate concern that through ignorance, or wrong assumptions about probate law/joint ownership rules, in the event of your Dad's death his wishes about his estate do not get carried out. I'm sure its very common that people bury their heads in the sand, die intestate and their property ultimately goes to someone who they would not want it to.

It is very early days though and although I hope you get the info you need from CAB (I dont think its beyond them personally) and keep it in your back pocket for now. I think you will need to wait for dad to talk to you about it rather than raising the subject. If/when he does buy into his partner's house, I would hope that a competent solicitor would at that point advise him on his legal position in terms of joint ownership and advise him to make a will to ensure that his wishes would be carried out.

I am sure you realise you have no "automatic right" to inherit from you dad/mum and you are not banking on this. Hopefully your dad will be around and fit and healthy for many years to come. There is also the possibility that he there will be nothing to inherit if for example he and/or new partner need long-term residential care in their old age and the house is sold to pay for this, or a number of other scenarios.

Mojisola

Good post, Claire. I think some people have been a little unkind in their responses. Most times people just don't think about their deaths and what will happen after them. If Jozbo's Mum could have seen a year into the future, who's to say that she might have written a will passing her share of the family home to her children? People tend to assume that their spouse will do right by the family.

The children have no "right of inheritance" but then neither do the blood relations of the new partner. Why should they benefit from the money earned and saved by the dead wife of their relation's new husband over and above her own children?

The television programme mentioned above - You Can't Take It With You - is worth watching. It may be a way of raising the issue with your father without making him feel you are after his money.

brians_daughter

jozbo wrote: »

Hi there,
My family is after a bit of advice but in advance of seeing the CAB about it I was wondering if we could get an idea from here first.

Our mum died just over a year ago, fairly young. My siblings and I are in our late teens/early twenties. Our father has been in a relationship with a new woman now for 6 months or so.

The family house he shared with our mum is now too big and expensive for him and he lives there alone but spends most of his time at his girlfriends'.

What he wants to do is sell the family home and buy half of his girlfriends' house. She is in a similar position to him and unable to afford her house but they both want to live there.

Her house is worth about 30% more than his, but his is still worth a significant sum.

If he was to buy half her house, when he died would she automatically keep all that money? Or would we have any claim to it? We expect they will marry.

What can we do to protect our inheritance (from both our mother and father) automatically being passed to our dad's girlfriend? Is there some sort of agreement or does he need to specify this in his will?

At the moment our father is very resistant to speak about the subject. We anticipate if we don't deal with this in advance it could lead to some nasty disputes in the future.

Thanks in advance.

If your concern is over items that were your mothers, ie jewellry etc then i am sure your dad would see why you wanted to 'secure' these items should anything happen to him... but i would hope that your father has found a woman who has her morals intact and she wouldnt want such items upon your fathers passing.

If the concern is about cold hard cash then its really your dads decision who gets left what on his passing. If your Mother had wished for you to be given money on her death she would have made provision to do so

TBH i have told my parents i wasnt nothing from their vast estate (aside from a clock i purchased my other when i was 9 - i saved up my pocket money every week for 4 months (the princely sum of £12.50 lol) to buy it for her 40th birthday and it means the world to both my mother and i) My only other wish is that they both live long enough to spend every penny they have worked and saved for on things they want...

Sorry if my post seems harsh, but no where do you say dad also has concerns, so as far as i can see the green eyed monster is appearing within you and your siblings... it can break strong families. I would suggest that you all rally round and try to find it in your hearts to accept this lady as part of your fathers (and hopefully your) life and be greatful that dad has found the strength to move on from his wifes tragic death and has found someone he feels worthy of sharing his life and family with.

kelloggs36

meritaten wrote: »

if your mum left everything to dad and nothing to her children or died intestate and dad inherited it all...........then you DONT have an inheritance! you would inherit what dad leaves you - if he wants to. keep that in mind and mind your manners!

You don't know what she intended - my dad left everything to my mum in complete ignorance of what the facts were - it is only since his death that we (and my mum) found out about tenants in common etc and the fact that he could have left his half of the house to us children - my mum is sure that is what he would have wanted to do had he known about it. At that time, they just did a DIY will from WHSmith, leaving everything to each other. My mum has now made a new will leaving everything to my sister and I and all her grand children as she wants, but wants to protect the house against husbands getting it in the event of our splitting up (if she were to transfer it over in trust now that is - very complicated!) She is taking a risk at the house being sold off to pay for any nursing care fees etc if that should happen, and is adamant that she does NOT want that to happen - she said that my dad would be horrified if the house were not passed to us, as he had already paid for it all, paid tax on everything and then to have to give up the house to the state would make him sick. He would have wanted us to have it. He didn't know the rules and so we are in a risk situation at losing the house at some point in the future. My sister and I don't begrudge our mum spending her money at all, as it is hers, but she has told us that she and dad wanted the house to be ours to inherit rather than it go to the state. If my mum were to remarry, she now knows that she would have to re-make a will so that my sister and I would inherit the house, she has said that if that were to happen, there is no way that any new husband would get it!

My husband's dad has remarried and they have virtually (or rather she has - she has admitted it) spent all his money he had left - including the money owned by my husband's mum. Lovely for her, but I'm pretty sure that his mum would rather her children got it than the new wife had she had an understanding of what would happen to it. Not stipulating something, doesn't mean that it is fully what they want- they just may not understand these things, and misunderstand the law to their children's detriment.

Personally, if I were to die, there is no way I would want any new wife to get anything over my children - my children come first I'm afraid.

onlyroz

kelloggs36 wrote: »

She is taking a risk at the house being sold off to pay for any nursing care fees etc if that should happen, and is adamant that she does NOT want that to happen - she said that my dad would be horrified if the house were not passed to us, as he had already paid for it all, paid tax on everything and then to have to give up the house to the state would make him sick.

Here we go again - another person with assets who thinks the state should pay for their nursing care.

January20

onlyroz wrote: »

It really amazes me when people think they have some god-given right to inherit from their parents. Let's hope your poor old dad doesn't see what you've written here, because if he does he'll probably write you out of his will completely.

I agree with this. I came late in the discussion (as usual ) and haven't all the previous posts but my first tought on reading the OP was: This is NOT your inheritance, this is your father's money, and whilst he is alive, he can blooming well do what he pleases with HIS money!

meritaten

kelloggs36 wrote: »

You don't know what she intended - my dad left everything to my mum in complete ignorance of what the facts were - it is only since his death that we (and my mum) found out about tenants in common etc and the fact that he could have left his half of the house to us children - my mum is sure that is what he would have wanted to do had he known about it. At that time, they just did a DIY will from WHSmith, leaving everything to each other. My mum has now made a new will leaving everything to my sister and I and all her grand children as she wants, but wants to protect the house against husbands getting it in the event of our splitting up (if she were to transfer it over in trust now that is - very complicated!) She is taking a risk at the house being sold off to pay for any nursing care fees etc if that should happen, and is adamant that she does NOT want that to happen - she said that my dad would be horrified if the house were not passed to us, as he had already paid for it all, paid tax on everything and then to have to give up the house to the state would make him sick. He would have wanted us to have it. He didn't know the rules and so we are in a risk situation at losing the house at some point in the future. My sister and I don't begrudge our mum spending her money at all, as it is hers, but she has told us that she and dad wanted the house to be ours to inherit rather than it go to the state. If my mum were to remarry, she now knows that she would have to re-make a will so that my sister and I would inherit the house, she has said that if that were to happen, there is no way that any new husband would get it!

My husband's dad has remarried and they have virtually (or rather she has - she has admitted it) spent all his money he had left - including the money owned by my husband's mum. Lovely for her, but I'm pretty sure that his mum would rather her children got it than the new wife had she had an understanding of what would happen to it. Not stipulating something, doesn't mean that it is fully what they want- they just may not understand these things, and misunderstand the law to their children's detriment.

Personally, if I were to die, there is no way I would want any new wife to get anything over my children - my children come first I'm afraid.

you are right in that we dont know what 'mum' intended or thought would happen! but, this lady surely knew that unless she made a will everything would automatically go to her husband? I mean no-one could be so naive as to think otherwise?

There has been so much trouble in my family lately over wills and dying intestate I am tempted to give away all my belongings now to whomever I want to have them (I have already started to do so - given my No1 son an old soveriegn which was left to me and given away various bits of jewellery if daughter or daughters in law admired them). I am in my mid fifties and I know my OH would be fair if I were to die before him and let the kids have keepsakes - but as for my share of the house???????? hmmmm if he could find another woman prepared to marry him then I tend to think good luck to her and if she sticks by him for ten, fifteen or twenty years she is welcome to the house! she would deserve it!

as for protecting an inheritance - sorry, but you can only have an inheritance if you are mentioned in a will. and tbh, to be posting about this when the father is alive and well is way too moneygrabbing for me.

spamalot

I felt quite sad reading the original post. Sad for the OP who lost her mum, sad for the dad and sad about how much we expect these days.

I would like to say to the OP that I am sorry for your loss, this must be a very confusing time. You've lost your mum and your dad is moving on with his life, you might be thinking 'hang on what about our mum?' It must seem like everyone except you and your siblings has forgotten what she meant to you all. I'm sure this is not the case, your dad is still thinking about her and still carries around the loving memory of their relationship; however he is entitled to move on with his life and find happiness. Doesn't mean he has forgotten your mum.

What concerns me is that this inheritance issue is a way of trying to control what your dad does in the future and that is wrong. The bottom line is, if your mum wanted you kids to inherit she would have put in her will. I don't agree that people have these strong wishes and yet fail to act on them. If she didn't understand how it worked I'm sure if her wish was strong enough she would have found out. That doesn't mean she didn't think about you, I suspect she probably thought her kids would go and build up their own assets throughout their working lives and support themselves. She could have been concerned about your dad, thinking that because he is older he wouldn't have time to build up any more money and so she wanted to make sure he was ok. I would certainly think this way towards my OH and would want to make sure he was financially stable.

Having recently done our wills, OH and I sat with a solicitor going through everything to make sure his kids (and our future ones!) plus the surviving partner is taken care of. We both agreed that we would not tell the kids what is in the will so there is no expectation. We want them all to go out and carve their own way in the world, and anything they inherit would be an added bonus. Once you are over 18, then unless he dies intestate and unmarried, you are not entitled to anything if he so decides.

I would be very careful not to let grief and anger cloud your judgement as you could end up alienating yourself from your surviving parent, especially if you start getting solicitors involved. It can all turn nasty very quickly.

Take a moment to pause and think before you do anything rash.

Good luck to you all.

kelloggs36

onlyroz wrote: »

Here we go again - another person with assets who thinks the state should pay for their nursing care.

How presumptuous of you - my sister is a nurse and has always said that if my mum needed full time care, then she would provide it. However, is it fair that those who have taken from the state all their lives, ie never worked, claimed benefits, then pension, then get all their care provided for free, whilst those who have worked full-time from the age of 15 and paid into the system way beyond what they have ever had in return, then have to give what little they have managed to get for themselves back to those who have never paid??? I don't.

kelloggs36

meritaten wrote: »

you are right in that we dont know what 'mum' intended or thought would happen! but, this lady surely knew that unless she made a will everything would automatically go to her husband? I mean no-one could be so naive as to think otherwise? It never ceases to amaze me how little some people do actually know - they think they do, but actually they do not. Because they think they know, they get caught out when it is too late. sad but true.

There has been so much trouble in my family lately over wills and dying intestate I am tempted to give away all my belongings now to whomever I want to have them (I have already started to do so - given my No1 son an old soveriegn which was left to me and given away various bits of jewellery if daughter or daughters in law admired them). I am in my mid fifties and I know my OH would be fair if I were to die before him and let the kids have keepsakes - but as for my share of the house???????? hmmmm if he could find another woman prepared to marry him then I tend to think good luck to her and if she sticks by him for ten, fifteen or twenty years she is welcome to the house! she would deserve it!

as for protecting an inheritance - sorry, but you can only have an inheritance if you are mentioned in a will. and tbh, to be posting about this when the father is alive and well is way too moneygrabbing for me.

Personally I would ask my other parent what they intend to do - we have that sort of family. After my dad died, my mum asked me to go with her to the solicitor and help with questions to protect 'our' inheritance as that is what she sees it as. It is only having had to look into it that I have come to realise how complicated it can be, and how easy it is to fall into the trap of assuming that those in your family will be protected, when they won't.