Grandad losing his house!

cte1111

To those people who are intending on giving their house to their children to avoid having to pay for their own care in the future, apart from the moral implications which I won't touch on as obviously they don't care about these, take note of what has happened with some friends.

My friend has met and moved in with a man. She's been on her own for years and I'm very happy for her, her partner is a bit odd in some ways but lovely in others, aren't we all? He's in his 60s, she is 10 years younger.

Her partner decided years ago that he was never going to find anyone he liked enough to marry / live with, so put his house in trust in his daughter's name. Now if my friend's partner were to die before her (as seems quite possible given their age difference) she will find herself homeless. Is that what you want to happen to a future partner?

Live changes as time goes by, you can't know what will happen to you or your children in the future. As others have said, would you be happy to have to sell your home if your child got married and divorced? And all this to avoid paying your own possibly hypothetical care bills, which may well be irrelevant by then as governments could have changed the rules by then.

Savvy_Sue

cte1111 wrote: »

And all this to avoid paying your own possibly hypothetical care bills, which may well be irrelevant by then as governments could have changed the rules by then.

also hypothetical because the % of us who actually NEED to go into a care home is a lot smaller than most people think.

actually, here's a thought: think of all the funerals you've been to. for those over retirement age, how many were in a care home when they died? what's the split? mine's about 1 in a care home to 10 not.

now think of all those you know over retirement age. how many of them are in care homes? unless I count my mate who is very actively living in a sheltered housing scheme, I don't know any! oh, possibly a few more in sheltered housing. that's out of about 50 ...

pelirocco

Barneysmom wrote: »

That's quite a nasty spiteful thing to say, you need to look at yourself, why are you like that?

She won't marry, she's against it for some crazy reason, possibly the one you mentioned......

Hardly nasty , its a fact of life and one you have to consider , or maybe she has serious financial problems in the future and is made bankrupt

pelirocco

In simple terms Grand dad isnt losing his home , he is 'part exchanging' it for a better quality of life

Errata

I think the current figure of older people who need to live in a care home is about 5%. This may decrease as LA's find more ways of enabling people to continue to live in their own home with input of appropriate care. LA's are becoming strapped for cash, which may mean even fewer people will be assessed as eligible for an LA funded care home place. Of course this may be counter balanced by more older people living much longer - average lifespan has consistently increased year on year for some time.

monkeyspanner

In an effort to actually answer the op's question rather than argue the rights and wrongs here are a few clarifications and suggestions.

- As Savvy sue says if the op grandfathers needs are primarily medical rather than social then there is a possibility that he could get NHS funded continuing healthcare. This is non-means tested but very difficult to obtain. You should approach the CHC assessment team in your Grandfather's local PCT (primary care trust) if in England or the Local Health Board in Wales for an assessment asap. Whilst this process is underway you can consider the following.

- If your grandads asset other than the house are under the lower savings limit of £23500 (in England slightly lower figure in Wales) and you don't want the house sold you should approach the council social services for assistance. Tell them the house will be difficult to sell and you would like them to consider deferred payments. There are a number of advantages to this.
Firstly if the council says yes to deferred payments your grandad retains ownership of the house and the council set a financial charge against the house to pay the care home fees BUT the council cannot charge interest on the deferred payments whilst your grandad is alive so it's like an interest free mortgage.
Secondly if the social services are invovled in arranging a care home placement the fee for exactly the same care in the same care home is likely to be lower and so the accumulated fees charged against the house will be lower.
Thirdly because the house is still in your grandfathers name he will benefit from any value rise on the property price.
Forthly he could rent the house out and although the net earnings from rental would have to go to helping to pay the care home fees he could cover maintainance expenses and probably even some upgrades to make it rentable which could add to its value. If he or family cannot manage the rental an agents fees should also be an allowable expense.

-Alternatively if you believe the best course is to sell the house and his other savings are under the lower savings limit request the social services for a 12 week disregard prior to him entering a care home. If granted the value of the house will be disregarded from any financial assessment during the first 12 weeks of his care home residence.

- If his savings are over the lower savings limit he will have to be self-funded until his savings drop below the lower savings limit after which you can still request deferred payment.

-If the only alternative is self funding your grandad should be able to get Attendance Allowance which is not means tested. (AA is not payable if the council are assisting with payment or if CHC is being paid after the first 28days).

-Take a look at immediate care needs anuities. Dependant on your granfathers medical condition and age there are a couple of companies who for a lump sum payment will guarantee to pay a fixed(or inflation linked) amount every year for the rest of his life towards the care home fees. This is likely to cost tens of thousands or possibly more but would fix the liability leaving any balance of the house sale for your grandads use.

This is a very complicated area but knowledge when dealing with the social services and PCT is essential so try to inform yourself of the rules. A good source of info and advice is www.couselandcare.org.uk they have a very good fact sheet on paying for care which give a good grounding on the system.

margaretclare

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

The "vastly overcharging" private nursing homes are often a lot nicer than the cheaper ones. Have you looked at the difference in the homes?

One of the ones I use to take my dog to as a PAT dog, had a rota for the residents to go the toilet. If they asked to go to the toilet before their allotted time, they were were told to wait. On the council paid floor, they had tiny rooms and they all shared a bathroom and a few toilets. On the "paid for themselves floor" they had bigger rooms, their own bathroom and toilet and were well away from the screamers.

The "paid for themselves" residents had their own private lounge and if any of them turned into a screamer, they went in the "paid for" lounge.

This is too awful. No wonder so many of them stink of urine. Not to go into too much detail but....as we get older, many people CANNOT wait!! For example, older men may be awaiting surgery for enlarged prostate, this means they get up several times a night, and when they gotta go, they gotta go!!! I've read of men like this who knew where every loo was in the town, every pub they could use the gents without buying any beer.

Making people wait to go to the loo is nothing short of cruelty.

Indie_Kid

margaretclare wrote: »

This is too awful. No wonder so many of them stink of urine. Not to go into too much detail but....as we get older, many people CANNOT wait!! For example, older men may be awaiting surgery for enlarged prostate, this means they get up several times a night, and when they gotta go, they gotta go!!! I've read of men like this who knew where every loo was in the town, every pub they could use the gents without buying any beer.

Making people wait to go to the loo is nothing short of cruelty.

I agree. I can't wait to go the toilet.

margaretclare

Well, this is certainly getting well away from what the OP asked originally.

Treat people differently because they're 'poor'? Telling them when they can go to the loo is really treating them differently. Saying that a poor person has to hold on to his/her bladder but a rich person hasn't?

It is human nature to pay for a little bit extra if you can afford it.

LittleMissAspie

joolsybools wrote: »

In times gone by the 'parent' would move back in with the 'child' and be looked after by them. It's called family. Something some of us seem to have forgotten the meaning of.

That was in the days when couples could afford to buy more than a one bedroom flat.